Swarms of people at Calais... Take 2

[LazyLouLou]

yes, I was an extremely rude and a bad poster. I called some people nasty names and didn't take into consideration that mentioning their race alongside my ire would be breaking the rules. However... Sunday Morning Live...

IABU to think that one person, A, ranting on about a politician using the word swarm, as though the word itself was in some way racist, is to miss the point about the refugee situation at Calais?

IABU to think that another person, B, telling A that they were being unreasonable and were missing the point was entirely reasonable?

AIBU to agree with B that likening the journalists in the camps to literary genius is ludicrous - B did not say anything, just looked stunned when A said "they are literally recreating Pilgrim's Progress".

AIBU to allow As woolly lefty utterance to derail my own usual left leanings so much that I have been shrieking at the telly in an almost deranged right wing manner: sticks and stones you stupid person? Get a grip on reality...

I know I was VVU in the way I first phrased all of that. But A was so very, very bereft of common sense and was so very, very full of pious mewlings.

The Calais situation needs action, not to be derailed by the use of one damned word... that has been suddenly redefined so as to give offense!

Pah!

Swathes... of corn. So people can be likened to a cereal crop but not insects? Especially as a standing crop only becomes a swathe as it is being mown down. That really would be bad.

If you'd watched the whole programme you would have heard why the guest in question was objecting so much to the use of the word swarm.

I did. I left when they changed topic.

The reasons were too contrived, too emotive, stretched too thin and a few of the similes used were probably more offensive than the original objection.

well no one is saying the word 'swarm' is racist for starters

it's the context - it's using a word associated with insects to describe human beings - and it has a historical context as well.

Swarm is a word that suggests being overwhelmed, attacked, harmed, - i's not a neutral word

Lots of people, Many 100's of people, Large amounts of people - all describe the situation adequately

I think Labour's response has been dire. They have been quibbling over a word and demanding compensation from the French. All the while accusing the government of having no real solution. But offering no solution of their own but doing their usual finger pointing and shouting 'racism'.

I suspect this is partly because had Labour been in power the solution would have been to let them all in and treat them very generously, and the next lot, and the next lot. And borrowing more and more money to pay for it all. And they don't want to admit that because they know it would play very badly for them with most of the electorate. But they also don't want to deny it because it would alienate a lot of their supporters.

(BTW OP,I seem to have picked a very similar username to you, it wasn't intentional and I do hope you are not offended).

swarms lots, problem solved. Lets have a nice chilled sunday now.

ghosts the tv guest specifically did... and asked if it would be acceptable if it were used about those fleeing Mugabe (ie, if they were white)?

Given that there are a lot of people overwhelming the French security, attacking security measures and doing untold damage, physically and financially. Swarm also describes the situation adequately. So, when did it become unacceptable to use metaphors and similes?

The follow up question is why is there such a media focus on a word when there is a far bigger problem to hand?

No offence taken, a name is a name and all that

You are right. Having lived as an adult through the 80s, when the rhetoric and floundering was about a small island, I recognise when the media and some politicians are trying very hard to obfuscate and confuse.

That one or two governments alone cannot fix this is obvious. It is a global phenomenon and we, the UK, being as far west as you can flee, are the natural full stop for many. Just as we were for the Romans.

Something bigger than us and the French must step in. And that will not happen soon.

Emeraldkitten: "making a nuisance of themselves". Check your head.

It isn't an appropriate word, whether fleeing Mugabe or any other regime. It's othering. It is a word used regarding insects and is therefore dehumanising. It has been shown that once this happens people find it easier to express their racism/dissatisfaction with those that are other. Ergo, as stated, entirely inappropriate.

Why focus on migration, what is the government trying to distract the population from? I can think of one court case last week.

smoke and mirrors.

Othering

OK. Homogeneity and metaphor/simile lacking, uberPCness it is then!

The problem with not being able to use words as words is that you start to sound all mealy mouthed and restrictive.

Take 1984 as your guide, look to China and Russia for modern day examples of how mangling a language restricts personal freedoms.

1. Diaspora leading to legal and illegal immigration, is real thing. There are hordes/herds/swarms/a great plethora of people fleeing an equally wide variety of happenings the world over.
2. Calais is a disgrace, a shame to the entire EU, if not the world
3. Racism/dissatisfaction, close mindedness etc need very little to fan the flames - which is why I am pissed off at the media hype over a single bloody word.

It is the situation that is deplorable, however it is described. To try to defend the media cries of 'nasty man' over a sodding word is ludicrous. That there is a swarm/herd/horde/plethora of people in need is the point.

Sorry lumpy, I don't buy into the usual crap conspiracy theories.

Try peddling your smoke and mirrors to the producers and hauliers who are being bankrupt by them.

I don't disagree that we are not being given the whole truth about that court case, but I do think that a government of people, many departments etc actually can do more than 1 thing at a time and to suggest what you, and others, are suggesting is a tad hysterical.

Smoke and mirrors?

Or could it be that the politicians Cameron is due to go on holiday and cant be bothered to do anything constructive as it might change his plans.

cynical, me?

op you are confused

it is perfectly possible to object to more than one thing at a time, or to have two different opinions about two different things.

'a swarm of people' is a dehumanising term, as cameron well knows.

I know all about cognitive dissonance, sanfairyanne. That you find me to be confused is your opinion, you are entitled to it, I shan't be bothered by it.

But I still find it ludicrous to be so upset about a simile that does not, by dictionary definition, dehumanise anyone.

The difference of opinion entirely depends upon how much anyone wants to rail about what is, at heart, an apt simile. Or to ignore the multi facetted nature of our language.

A swarm of people is, in my opinion, an apt description and is not dehumanising.

I actually find the assertion that it is dehumanising to be offensive. To the intellect and the language. But most of all I am irritated that anyone, politician, journalist, etc, finds it necessary to run the accusation, to be somewhat professionally offended, when to do so takes attention away from the more important necessities.

i suppose someone else already pointed this out. see stage 3
www.genocidewatch.org/aboutgenocide/8stagesofgenocide.html

I hate this trend of fixating on one word, rather than the message. To me, its a bit strange and obsessive. Taken to its logical conclusion, you would get people saying meaningless placatory comments all the time with no content, lest they use a perfectly unoffensive word that someone might take an obsessive dislike to, and use in order to demonise them for its use.

So YABU OP. Obviously.

Oh dear. So we are back to not being able to use similes and metaphors.

feministing.com/2015/02/12/i-find-this-offensive-how-offense-discourse-traps-us-into-inaction/

www.theguardian.com/books/2015/may/11/chimamanda-ngozi-adichie-fear-causing-offence-a-fetish

“He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool.”
? Brigham Young

Ellen, I don't think we disagree, so if IABU, so are you

I am not fixating on the word, I am pissed off by others doing so.

The point is, mealy mouthed or not (and I assure you, I'm not) is that we use language to define, that's why disability hate crime has increased. It's also why hate crime against benefit recipients has increased, really quite dramatically since 2010.

Example of the use of the word 'swarm' from Merriam-Webster dictionary site.

a swarm of tourists descends upon the island every summer

Seems ok to me.

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/swarm

Dawn, that would be fine, if the word really had been misused.

And I don't think I called anyone mealy mouthed... just the practice of restricting language and, in the next couple of posts, showing why.

And now I know it has a name that is more meaningful than 'professionally offended': Offense Discourse and now I can despise it in a more knowledgeable fashion.

The point is, mealy mouthed or not (and I assure you, I'm not) is that we use language to define, that's why disability hate crime has increased. It's also why hate crime against benefit recipients has increased, really quite dramatically since 2010.

Well to be fair Dawndonna "disability hate crime" was pretty much an unknown term until it became fashionable a couple of years ago.

What do you think the word "swarm" defines, and why do you link its use to being offensive? I ask this in all honesty, as a non-native English speaker, who was pretty certain that it was a commonly used simile in the English language with no particularly offensive connotations.

If you are going to randomly make rules that certain words and phrases cannot be used, please have foresight for those of us who are unaware of these sudden distinctions!

So, when did it become unacceptable to use metaphors and similes?

I personally developed a hatred for dehumanising metaphors and similes when during the first Gulf War a US army pilot referred to bombing civilians as being like the Fourth of July, while a US soldier said that killing Iraqis was like killing cockroaches. Ever since then I have been extremely sensitive to any language that dehumanises.