...to reward DS2 but not DS1 for school work this year?

[fiddlybulb]

Genuinely don't know whether AIBU here. Please be gentle

DS2 (10, Y5) is an absolute dream at school. Teachers consistently say he's clever, helpful, responsible, tries hard, friendly, polite etc etc. Attainment levels are good.

DS1 (12, Y7) is clever but his reports this year have consistently said that he mucks about in lessons. He's had lots of detentions, keeps kicking footballs around in class and across most subjects he didn't meet his (high-ish) end of year targets. He's explicitly admitted to me that in some subjects he doesn't put effort in at all - subjects that I consider important, like English and French. We've had LOTS of conversations about this over this academic year and he knows I expect more from him on the effort front. However he's v good at maths - mostly I think without really having to try very hard - and got Level 7a for the end of Y7 which I know is great. He's also done well in science and history. So a mixed bag - but it's his attitude I'm worried about.

I bought DS2 a jacket he'd been after (£50) to reward him for being lovely and trying hard in school. Since reception, no teacher has had a bad word to say about him.

I congratulated DS1 on the maths and good levels in a couple of other subjects, but said I wanted him to try harder in other core subjects.

I didn't rub DS1's face in it but DS2 has told him about the jacket. (I didn't tell him he shouldn't.)

DS1 now saying I'm BU and unfair not to reward him for his good results in maths.

AIBU? (Or was I just being a twat to reward DS2)

V sorry if this looks like stealth boasting - I am proud of DS1's maths ability but tbh more worried that he's getting into a pattern of thinking he doesn't have to try at things. He's convinced that a talent for maths will turn him into Bill Gates while I worry he's going to underachieve horribly. I may be being a tad neurotic.

I don't reward reports. I agree with UnsolvedMystery.
I also wouldn't do anything to promote sibling rivalry - resentments often last for life.

Sorry I see I phrased the football thing badly, was in a tizz when I wrote the op. His mucking around has been consistent over the year but the football thing was the worst example. I was probably trying to justify myself

Would also add that building up sibling resentments, however accidentally, can backfire into parent resentments. My parents always nitpicked at the differences between me and my sister, genuinely thinking they were encouraging us, but as a result my sister and I, who have a strong relationship anyway, have kind of bonded over being fed up with my parents for the way they think of us.

I think rewarding effort is okay, rewarding grades is not.

My older siblings always used to get praise for their crappy marks. I always got significantly better grades but because they came easy to me, I got nothing from my parents.

I'd explain to ds1 that ds2's jacket was for him making an effort and not playing up. If ds1 makes an effort and doesn't play up then HE will get a reward too.

I think the idea above about telling him if October report shows a good improvement in effort and behaviour he will get his new jacket then explain ds2 present was not for grades but effort and behaviour, this way you have not backed down but ds1 does not have to wait a year basically 8 weeks once schools back, as both your sons are clever there does not really appear to be a gap in attainment potential academically so its effort that makes the difference not differing abilities

I don't reward children's achievements, children need to learn to work towards goals for their own personal satisfaction, not because they get a sugar cube from Mummy.
Of course I am always happy to share in their joy.

I think rewarding grades is ok, but only if you're comparing attainment to target as this makes it fair for everyone.

I'm not a massive fan of the sole focus on effort - I can't remember the exact research paper but we discussed it as part of my MEd about the children who constantly put maximum effort in and still don't achieve and how the constant emphasis on effort makes them feel.

I like the idea of rewarding behaviour in school and that you could tell your son that if he improves his behaviour by half term he'll get his treat then. Give his some specific targets so he knows what he is working towards - 'improve' is too vague.

I don't do rewards either. Only for things that involve pain, such as an injury or a filling - and that's only a bribe, not a reward. It helps them get through it.

It just makes me uncomfortable basing anything much on rewards and punishments, but I'm not sure why. It seems very judgmental and top-down - essentially you are punishing your older son by rewarding the younger one. iyswim?

I agree older son needs to work on his attitude though.

The problem is that you can explain until you are blue in the face , but unless you are very lucky, all they remember in subsequent years is that the brother got an expensive jacket and they didn't.

I do think it's right to focus on effort rather than attainment. However, I don't believe in rewarding children for good reports at all.

I suggest that you read up on the differences between intrinsic and extrinsic motivation, OP. I have always taught my dd that she should work hard because she owes it to herself to be the best that she can be, and not to please me or "earn" any external rewards.

DD always gets glowing reports from school, and she takes great pleasure and pride in reading the lovely things her teachers have to say about her. Of course, I tell her that I'm proud of her, but I think it is more important that she feels proud of herself.

I'm over-compensating for what happened to me when I was a kid I think. My older bro was mercurial, v clever, cheeky and badly behaved. He got loads of attention and approval (not material rewards) from our parents. I was much more like DS2 and the response was 'oh isn't fiddlybulb a good girl' with a head pat but nothing like the same amount of attention. I'm obviously failing not to pass on the same mistake but the other way around!

Can you have an adult conversation with him about it and agree his "goals"? I'd make it clear that to you its also and especially about effort. I'd also agree a smaller reward for his maths so that you recognise that that is delivered now and praise him lots for that.

I'm guessing what he's annoyed at is that he wants £50.

Honestly, I'd probably tell him that being naturally gifted is it's own reward, but you wanted to highlight DS2s effort for being diligent, hard working etc. You're proud of them both and being bright and getting good grades will serve them both well but there is more to life than being a smart arse.

I'd probably find a maths gift to reward him with to 'make things fair'. A day at maths camp, a new scientific calculator. Something tells me he just wants a nice £50 gift so he can look flash.

I was unhappy with DC3's lack of effort and poor attitude. There were also complaints from school. He was put on report for a while ie taking a form to the
teacher after each lesson to
have comments about
behaviour and work written on.
This was then taken to the Head
of Year each day and then
brought home. If the report
wasn't acceptable, there was a
sanction that evening.
it worked until he'd been off report for a short time so I asked for him to be put back on report for half a term. He got into the habit of better behaviour and effort and his grades have improved.

Yes good idea, set him some targets for the next half term.

I think you did the right thing. Why should you reward bad behaviour? Might make him buck up his ideas!

I think you did the right thing and I like the idea mentioned above about October half term's report. As an aside my parents did rewards for grades at gsce. It certainly concentrated my mind on working hard!

Probably just me, but I'm still trying to get my head around buying a £50 jacket for a 10-year-old child who will most probably have either grown out of it or gone off it within a year.

I don't reward results - but do exceptional effort. So for example after the final 11 plus exam the family went out to a meal to say well done to ds2 - and to reinforce I didn't give a shit what the actual result was.

Ds3 is doing it now & said that lots of his friends are 'getting phones if they pass' - I would be horrified if I thought that was actually true. I suspect he was trying to get me to buy him a phone. He'll get a 'well done for working hard' meal after the final exam, like his brother.

YAB massively U. I was the quiet 'no trouble' one and hugely resented the way bad behaviour seemed to get rewards. Not to mention that frankly your DS2's behaviour sounds so appalling that he shouldn't be getting a reward at all

I'm actually not sure rewards for schoolwork are a good idea. Personally I see academic progress as it's own reward. But if presents are being bought, it's absolutely not U to not buy them for the badly behaved son- and I'd definitely be putting other sanctions in place after a report like that. DS1 needs to learn to work hard - he's decent in maths now but presumably not any kind of genius - but if he wants to continue it he'll have to put effort in by the time he gets to A-Level. And if he doesn't know how to do that then he'll be disappointed. Plus he won't get into a good uni for maths without decent GCSE results all round.

Rewarding one and not the other could breed resentment towards the one with the jacket

Agree with this.

YABU and your oldest son is probably going to sell your youngest into Egyptian slavery. But hopefully he'll be well-placed to care for your family during the seven years of famine.

Joking, I don't think this situation has a simple clear-cut answer. Older kids are complicated.

Hahaha Clockwork God they are aren't they

Manatee I think either you've misread my posts or I've misread yours, as I think I've done the opposite of what you think I've done? Good to know I'd have been massively U to do that as well though

I don't agree with material rewards for effort or achievement other than, for example, a bar of chocolate. I've known children who get rewarded with computer games or money for quite minor achievements, and then boasting about it to their friends.