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retiring at 40, btl the best way?

142 replies

marieinlondon · 18/07/2015 18:33

We are currently in our early 30s and want to retire in 10 years time. We have been working really hard to pay off the mortgage on our house and only have 30k left. We bought our place for 120k several years ago and is now worth over 300k. In a years time the clause from right to buy will end and we can finally sell it on and start planning our future.

We are planning on selling it next year and this will leave us with 280k ish in cash. We want to buy a slightly bigger place on a mortgage for about 450k using 150k deposit and then use the rest to buy two or three flats in good areas to rent out. I only work part time so take in just 8k, but my husband earns a heahtly 56k + bonus.

Can any one give me tips and advice? I want to remain in north London and have my investments in north London also. We plan to work hard for the next ten years to pay down the mortgages and then hopefully we will make enough to retire. Did originally post this in property but this seems to be the active forum here.

Am I crazy for thinking this is totally possible?

OP posts:
Murfles · 18/07/2015 19:35

I think you're being very unrealistic OP and should sit down and look over your figures. Paying off a 300k mortgage in ten years would be achievable on a salary of 56k without the pitfalls of BTL. Over the next ten years you assume your DH will earn £560,000. Paying off a £300,000 mortgage will leave you £260,000 which is £26,000 a year to maintain a larger house and pay larger utility bills as well as fuel, clothing, food etc. Also, if any of your BTL properties dont have tenants you're still liable for the mortgage not to mention upkeep of the properties and any repairs that need doing. I wouldn't risk that on £26,000 a year!

We have 3 rental properties which are not BTL and I wouldn't even risk trying to maintain them etc on income of 26k. No way!!

specialsubject · 18/07/2015 19:44

whoever it was, the words 'leeching off renters' were used which is not really a rational argument. You are of course entitled to it. As am I to respond.

but the OPs sums don't stack up. Don't believe the journo-hype that BTL is a money machine. Plenty have been badly burnt believing that.

£26k excluding mortage/rent is plenty to live on if you are careful, have no kids, don't take expensive holidays, don't buy clothes except underwear/charity shop stuff, don't eat out or go out in London except to free things, don't travel in London and so on. I happily live on much less and don't mind, but I'm not in London, have seen a lot of the planet and have no interest in clothes/gadgets/cinema/expensive stuff. And I've plenty of 'cushion' and insurances should I hit problems with my one rental.

oh, and you need to think about your old age and what happens if you get ill. That's why I did my time in offices.

more positively; look up the blogs/books on early retirement (not newspaper articles), pay off the mortgage and get your arse out of London. If you want to stay, you'll need to keep working.

Writemove · 18/07/2015 19:45

As well as paying off the £300k capital don't forget you have to pay interest too. If that's at 3% and doesn't rise you're looking at finding another £50k.

Plus if your dh is on £56k isn't that pre tax? He won't have anything like £560,000 in his pocket in the next 10 years.

You'd need to be paying £35k a year on your mortgage alone to clear it by 2025 - sounds like almost all his take home salary. That's before any btl fees, void periods etc

I'm another who thinks your numbers don't stack up.

butterfly133 · 18/07/2015 19:48

marie - I am not at all hostile to your idea so please bear with me

I'm unclear on the maths. I don't think you need to allocate 10% for the sale fees (as a poster said upthread). But I'm confused about how you will get 2 flats when you only have £130k to deposit - and you will be looking at 3 sets of stamp duty as well. Do you mean 2 x London flats?

then you have to factor in the issues of problem tenants, repairs etc, the possibility of either of you losing work - even for a short time.

Would it not make more sense to buy one BTL, concentrate on paying off the mortgage in the home you live in and that one - and see what happens?

I'm hoping to retire at 50 - I do know one guy who did at 40 but he also was older than me and bought property when it was the sort of price yours was. He didn't earn much but when he bought a BTL, he bought one. I remember him muttering over the maths of buying 2 as well. I know it might feel like you are spreading risk by buying 2, but are you really? Is it worth that massive risk exposure? (Actually even as I type, I think, well you can always sell the 2 x BTL).

you will need to get all your finances - including expenditure etc - into a spreadsheet and be able to show the bank that you can support 3 mortgages.

I hope you will update this thread because I am always interested to see how this stuff works out. Good luck!

PumpkinPie2013 · 18/07/2015 19:54

I'm by no means an expert on this but to me, the plan looks unrealistic and risky - what if your rental properties are empty for a period of time or tenants get into arrears or you find major work needs doing?

Keeping two additional mortgaged properties plus a large property of your own on your husband’s wage alone just seems bonkers to me.

If you want to buy a second property to rent out then by all means do so, but I would think that you will both need to continue working for a number of years beyond your 40th birthdays.

MaggieJoyBlunt · 18/07/2015 19:56

Retire at 40!?

WTF for? Confused

MaggieJoyBlunt · 18/07/2015 19:58

In a years time the clause from right to buy will end and we can finally sell it on and start planning our future.

Oh RTB?

I see.

Just a GF whipping up some more anti-tenant sentiment then?

TheHouseOnBellSt · 18/07/2015 19:59

Maggie Hmm Not everyone is driven by work and ambition. Some people are happy to amble along at 40 plus...I would if I could. I'd paint, volunteer, sew and read.

I'd still go out with my mates etc but I'd LOVE to retire now at 40.

MaggieJoyBlunt · 18/07/2015 20:01

Maybe.

Immaterial anyway. It's not real.

answersonapostcardplease · 18/07/2015 20:03

How do you afford to live on relatively small income paying that much into mortgage? Confused

Have you got dcs?

Ineedtimeoff · 18/07/2015 20:03

This is a good site for calculating buying and selling fees estate agent's fees are at least 2-3% for selling plus everything else on top

bestguess23 · 18/07/2015 20:07

Please speak to an independent financial advisor. Unless you are incredibly frugal and also very lucky the figures just don't add up. Your income and assets do not suggest the kind of cushion you would need to retire at 40.

butterfly133 · 18/07/2015 20:14

I'm going to say - be careful of financial advisers - whenever I see one they want to allocate money towards tons of things that I don't need/have/want

It is amazing how much you can save and how much you can pay off. From the first time I lived alone, I think my rental was half my salary - not normal at all in those days - and I had to work hard to prove to the bank that my normal expenditure was low enough to make certain figures work. I'm guessing, as you have this plan, that you are also major money savers and for that reason, I think it might work.

btw you don't have to sell your flat via an EA and pay those fees.

also, don't forget to look at the mortgages very carefully to see if there's a cap on overpaying. It's not in the mortgage company's interest for you to overpay so sometimes there is a limit that is not generous!

toomuchtooold · 18/07/2015 20:17

ARLA have some good guides on their website: eg this one and their reports can give you an indication of what sort of income you might expect off your properties. It does sound a bit risky to me I must say but you know your circumstances Smile

You don't expect a rate rise soon you said but be careful - the Bank of England has started signalling that the rate might rise soon and the pound's gone up on the strength of that so the markets are taking it seriously. You'll be highly leveraged so very sensitive to rate rises. You could always fix though.

Stubbed · 18/07/2015 21:16

If it was that easy, everyone would be doing it...

ShakesBootyFlabWobbles · 18/07/2015 21:25

Also think about tax; the higher rate tax relief on BTL mortgage interest for higher rate taxpayers has been removed in the recent budget. As your husband earns >50K, the cost will be more than it used to be.

butterfly133 · 18/07/2015 21:26

Stubbed, I've found a lot of people have no interest at all in retiring early and the frugality involved both before and after. Also a lot of people can't get on the ladder in the first place, so hardly "easy".

Pagwatch · 18/07/2015 21:31

DH retired at 47 and it's so unusual that people are usually a bit freaked out when we tell them.
I think your figures are off but more importantly what do you intend to do with your retirement?

Retirement is just not working. What are you going to do instead?
Are you both able to live with no purpose or endeavour?

caroldecker · 18/07/2015 21:38

There will not be any inflation if interest rates remain low, so you either rely on inflation eroding your debts but higher interest rates, or low rates and low inflation.
also, paying off £300k mortgage in ten years is £30k a year plus interest - At least £45k of pre-tax earnings just to pay that.

youareallbonkers · 18/07/2015 21:44

Working part time earring 8k she's practically retired already

GirlsonFilm · 18/07/2015 21:50

I don't know if this has been raised, but you can't transfer tax allowance to a higher rate tax payer (I'd love to be able to)

Topseyt · 18/07/2015 21:52

We own four btl properties, plus our own house. Two of the btl properties are flats, but all four have mortgages on them. None are in London, but are spread over East Anglia.

I really don't think you have factored in all of the costs which can beset you with this plan.

You will have mortgages, as you know. However, flats are very often owned on the leasehold system in the UK, and London is no exception there. You could be paying ground rent, and you will be liable to pay service charges to the freeholder or their managing agent. There can also be sudden and unforeseen ad hoc expenses for things like external repairs, repairs to communal areas, roofing etc. These can be significant expenses and would very likely knock your budget completely sideways.

Also, for the life of me I cannot see how you will squeeze two flats out of that tiny deposit (by London standards) unless you take out huge mortgages.

Interest rates have been at rock bottom for so long now that I think many of us have got very used to that. I remember when they were controlled by politicians rather than the Bank of England though, and were much more volatile (15% at one point under Thatcher). They are more stable now, but will begin to rise again at some point, possibly in the next couple of years. We are aiming to be virtually rid of mortgages by the time that really becomes an issue, but you will have taken on some new ones.

I'm not saying don't do it, but rethink the jacking in work at 40 lark. You could regret it.

Perhaps one alternative possibility would be to sell your house to release all of that equity and invest the profit in some proper pensions and ISAs, both of which can give you some income in the future whilst maintaining much of their capital if wisely invested.

butterfly133 · 18/07/2015 21:54

Pagwatch "Are you both able to live with no purpose or endeavour?"

"no job" does not equal no purpose or endeavour!!

GirlsonFilm - I didn't understand that bit about tax either.

The budget also removes the 10% allowance for wear & tear
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jul/08/osborne-buy-to-let-tax-relief-limit-budget

Pagwatch · 18/07/2015 21:58
Hmm

Having not had a 'job' for neatly 20 year and having a DH who retired 18 months ago, I know that.

My point was the ops post seems to present retirement as a destination/conclusion. It isn't .

Are they actually ready for a life without scheduled work.

fuctifino · 18/07/2015 22:00

£300k mortgage at today's best mortgage rate (1.9% 2 yr fixed) would mean payments of approx £3k per month.
Will you be able to afford to eat?
I don't think your combined salaries will stretch that far.

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