to wonder if these chore-shy men WANTED to be dads?

[LeftMyRidingCropInTheMortuary]

Inspired by other threads which bemoan the DP/DH not doing his fair share of child-related duties.

The advice given on these threads is often about calculating and dividing duties up so each partner has equal free time. And about how if DP/DH didn't have OP, he would have to pay £££ for childcare. There seems to be an assumption that the DC are always a 50/50 responsibility.

Now, obviously, these men fathered these children (they could have used a condom or abstained!) so they ARE their responsibility, in terms of chores AND financially.

But...now don't shoot me down...DID these men want children in the first place? Did it just "happen" or did he just go along with it because OP wanted children or because it's just the "done thing"? I've never met a man who is desperate for children in the same way women can be.

Does anyone know of a set-up whereby the man said (maybe if he already has grown up children?) "Ok, we can have a baby but you have to do the lion's share of the chores". (A bit like if one partner wants a dog!!!!) Has a man ever turned around and said "no, YOU wanted the DC, YOU do the night feeds"?

I hope this makes sense and is not seen as goady. Just something I've wondered about.

Did you and DP/DH want children equally as much? Do you feel bad asking him to do XYZ if you, ahem, talked him into becoming a father of if it was, ahem, "accidental"?! (I have heard such confessions on MN!)

Thanks in advance.

Disconcerted* - I agree that a single parent can do a perfectly good job of raising a child alone. I was one for many years and I would go as far as saying that I did a better job than quite a few couples TBH.

However, would that not have been even better had my DC had a father with the same level of interest in them? How could that not improve things even more for my DC? As well as providing that extra safety net of someone else to contribute financially/be there in the event of illness or death/an extra emotional bond or relationship that nurtures the child.

And a child also picks up on the balance of domestic chores int he house. I for one certainly wouldn't have wanted my DC believing that it's a mum's job to do everything - I don't want my DD or my DS thinking it's normal for one person to be a skinny while another, perfectly capable adult is a king. That's going to be damaging for their understanding of healthy, respectful relationships.

I wanted DC my DP didn't. We split up over it. 7 yrs later back together. I still wanted DC he still didn't but said he wouldn't mind if that is what I wanted. We had 2. He is a reasonable father, more to the first than the second but he loves them and they love him.

I pay for them, I do all the work, I take all the responsibility. It is hard. but they are my "job". That was our deal and it works fine. (Don't particularly want to be judged on this - DC are happy and well cared for and have a good relationship with their father. It might not be "MN Approved" but it works)

Dh wanted kids I think slightly more than I did.
Does half the housework (most of it right now as I'm a mess with spd.)
He is Swedish though - culturally much less acceptable here to be a sahp or to not share childrearing. Here the norm is both work, both share domestic duties.

Expecting our first soon so I'll be interested to see if this utopia is all it is cracked up to be!

Probably many of them did want to be Dads but they are lazy and chore shy. Or they were brought up thinking that they werent ultimately responsible for cleaning and the mundane childcare.

I would think it's much more common with men wanting to have children but not expecting to pick up half the work, maybe based on what they've been used to growing up.

Skiptonlass, unfortunately the division of domestic labour usually plunges after the first child in Sweden too... but I think people have a different default outlook than the UK, and expect things to be equal.

OP, I think you might have had more responses if the initial post hadn't read as a journo request.

Oh, and with regard to the received wisdom that women want children more than men do, I think the fact that men can feasibly tack the words "some day" onto the phrase "I would like children" for a lot longer than women is relevant. Everyone has a roughly equivalent need for food, but if there was an expected shortage on the horizon, who's going to be desperate to pay a fortune for food, the person with a week's worth stashed in their larder, or somebody with a year's worth?
I think somebody who was enough of a cock not to want to help care for his children might also be enough of a cock to use his partner's fear about an age-related decline in fertility and make her declare her hand first while he pretends that he's not that bothered. After all, if she does call his bluff he can always hold on for a few years, then dump her and get a younger model pregnant whereas she is stuffed past a certain age. If she "breaks" first and begs for a baby then he can kick back, relax, enjoy being a father and remind her that she was the one who wanted a baby every time its nappy needs changed.

Come to think of it, I've always been open to the idea of planned single-parenthood. Whether this be going down the sperm donor route or otherwise.

Thanks all for your contributions!
Sorry for it reading like a journalist's Q. I'm just nosy, don't have own DC (yet?) so I wonder and like to hear other ppl's experiences.
It was also in Friends - mind when Richard says to Monica "if I HAVE to do it it all again" when they're dancing at the wedding and they split up over it.

1. DH wanted kids more than me. This does not mean that I get to dodge some or all of the responsibility and work in raising them

1. Agree with PP who have said the most likely scenario with men who don't pull their weight isn't that they didn't want kids / were pressurised or tricked into it, but that they are lazy

1. "Does anyone know of a set-up whereby the man said (maybe if he already has grown up children?) "Ok, we can have a baby but you have to do the lion's share of the chores". " Yes I know many "traditional" couples where everything to do with house & children are the woman's responsibility, and the men go out to work and that's their job. In some of these couples the woman works part-time as well. It's not that unusual is it, it's a not unusual set-up whether people say it explicitly or otherwise

While we were discussing having children my DH expressed severe concern that night feeds disrupting sleep in the first six months would stop him being able to perform adequately at work, and as part of a wide discussion involving lots of things about how we would see ourselves parenting at different life stages (etc) we agreed that I would do those feeds exclusively.
But I don't see that as 'opting out of his child' rather than a specific concern about our lifestyle as a whole - he is still a very hands on dad and always changed nappies (etc), and that specific part went by in the blink of an eye whereas he will be parenting forever.

noddingoff has absolutely got it on this thread.

My own df became a parent at the age of 28 in 1957. He had been married nearly 5 years by then and was career-minded and driven. But he definitely wanted children. His work commitments were big at the time and his wife was happy to become a 50s style SAHM. So he didn't change nappies and his wife breastfed the babies.

Fast forward 16 years and he has divorced this wife and left the two children from that marriage behind. He is 45, still in love with his job and his career. He meets someone 17 years younger and they get married. She wants children and he agrees because he loves her and also he does actually enjoy having little kids about the house. It's just that he doesn't want the tiresome domestic drudgery that goes along with it. So he says to his wife, it's your choice to have the babies, you have to look after them. So they have 3 kids and again he never changes a nappy (never once!) and never bathes the children. But he adores these children, never stops talking about them, and when they are adults spends all his time with them. Even to the extent of having them living with them well into their 20s. And working in his 70s to pay for one of them to go to drama school.

He had the enormous privilege of having 5 children, my df, without ever once being the primary carer. I mean, I suppose, perhaps a couple of times in his second marriage he might have kept an eye on the three children if his dw wanted to pop to the shops when they were older, he might have allowed that.

Funnily enough, all of my 4 siblings look back on him fondly as a great dad. Me, not so much, but I am the only one of the 5 of us to have children of my own.