To think DDs school are a bit lax about kids going home for lunch?

[dontrunwithscissors]

h. DDs are at primary school. The school is very strict (of course) about taking a register in the morning and will ring parents if a child isn't there and you haven't notified then they are sick. They have lots of security for the building itself so nobody can just walk in. Good. What Id expect.

However, the school grounds are open and people walk through the playground as a short cut. I find it a bit bizarre that they're so worried about security in the school building, but during playground any child can walk through the gates and off the grounds (DD has confirmed this happened once, there's nobody watching the gates) & any adult can meander through the grounds while the kids are playing.

Also, if a child wants to go home for school dinner, all they do is tick a box next to their name on the lunch form and walk out of the gates. On one occasion, DD1 realised she had ticked the wrong box--she said she was having packed lunch instead of home lunch. Nobody picked up on this. Nobody checks for the younger children that there's someone there to collect them at lunch time.

AIBU to think they should have more robust procedures? I read a thread recently about a 4 year old walking to school on their own and loads of people said that their DC's school checks that younger children are being collected by adults. None of this happens at DDs school.

After Dunblane, the security of the buildings was tightened up. There should be no way to get into the building without being 'buzzed in'. This is the case at DS's primary and in the secondary where I work. The playgrounds, however, are open to anyone really - although there is CCTV now which there wasn't pre-Dunblane.

Re: uniform - it depends entirely on the school. The secondary I work in has a very strict uniform policy and every pupil is in shirt and tie. They are given one to change into if they're not wearing one, so they'd rather wear their own.

@ mrsjayy, nobody checks P1s are picked up, except for the first week of half days. No teachers to be seen and the receptionist disappears at 3.15 so no way to get into the school if a parent didn't turn up. The only people around are the out of school club workers. I certainly remember on one occasion they had a child there whose parent hadn't collected them--not sure if the specifics as just heard them talking about it when I collected DD.

It's the fact that they will also allow random days where the lollipop man isn't there that I find a bit worrying. Parents obviously allow their kids to walk to school on the assumption that they will be helped across the school.

Across the road

It's the fact that they will also allow random days where the lollipop man isn't there that I find a bit worrying.

There are days when the lollipop man isn't there? Just randomly? That's not on.

Sounds like my childhood too! Also in Scotland.

My DS's primary school do have the gates locked at playtime/lunchtime nowadays, with high fences surrounding the school. I don't know how they deal with people going home for lunch.

All high schools I've ever known of have huge swarms of teens leaving for lunch - chippy chips for lunch, brilliant! Never heard of passes or anything like it.

The p1 thing does sound lax. Our P1s and 2s get let out one at a time, making sure each goes to appropriate adult. If the teacher doesn't see the parent/guardian the. The child is kept with the teacher. I'm easy going but I definitely wouldn't like free roaming 5 year olds.

In many countries abroad, nobody checks if children are picked up from aged 4. When there was a major family problem when I was 4, I was left waiting outside the school for half an hour before anyone turned up.
It means you have to teach your children what to do if you are late.

That doesn't sound good.

Obviously no problem with kids being "allowed" home for lunch, but in an emergency, surely staff have to know who is where iyswim?

Otherwise staff could be wasting time trying to find someone who wasn't there!

@backwardpossom. Yes, there are random days with no lollipop man. There are actually 3 crossings around the school. Sometimes the school texts all parents on the morning to let them know--that probably happens once a month. But there have been other times when the school hasn't let parents know (hence the two girls being knocked down). I think it happens when he's off sick. They never send out a replacement.

And, yes, nobody checks the younger kids are picked up. I hadn't though that was unusual (DDs go to out of school club most days) until I read a thread on here.

Teaching yiur kids what to do if you're late....unless you have family/friends close by, what can they do other than wait? There are never any teachers around the outside of the school, and they can't get back into the school building to ask for help. Their only option would be to walk around to the out of school club and ask for help. I would tend to think that 4.5 is very young for them to have to be able to think things through in that way.

Sorry, that wasn't clear--there are three lollipop people in surrounding roads so every now and then, one of them isn't there. Sometimes parents are texted, but not always.

The security was tightened on all the school buildings after Dunblane, but there is little schools can do with their grounds if there are rights of way. The cost of all the fencing that went up was huge, there simply was't the money to find numerous legal battles over rights of way as well.

The lollipop man thing isn't right though - if there is supposed to be a manned crossing it should be each day and I'd get onto the council about it (lollipop staff are not organised/monitored by the school) as they may not be aware there is an issue.

I think there was a bit of an uproar about the lollipop people when those two girls were knocked down, but I've neve paid a lot of attention because we drive the DDs to school (we are out of catchment.)

Whether a pupil is on site or not is irrelevant to whether buildings are checked for people in an emergency. Anyway, unless you have some kind of tracking device fitted to every pupil, I don't see how you can know if a kid is on or off site.

I may be wrong, but in an emergency, a kid who has said they're going home for lunch will still be checked for. If a fire alarm sounds, for example, each area of the school has a member of staff (and a back up if that staff member is absent) who is responsible for checking that area is empty, shutting the windows and doors and then going to the relevant person to report any issues or say it's clear. In any other emergency (like Dunblane) stopping access to a playground will not make a difference. An attacker intent on causing harm would find a way in, in my opinion.

I'd be getting in touch with the council about the lollipop person issue. That's really poor and I've never heard of nobody covering a crossing if someone didn't turn up. Even in my cash strapped local authority.

We only have one road which has a crossing lady and occasionally she is sick and no one stands in for her. Mind you some drivers don't stop for her either!!! Council have upgraded the traffic calming to stop this and all schools in the LA have to produce a travel plan now and encourage walking to school which will make lollipop people even more important

I still dont see the problem with people walking through a playground. What risk does it pose? People walk past your children everywhere they go! What difference does it make if they are outside the school, or in a regular playground, or in a shopping centre?

If you think your children are goung to be mown down with a lollipop lady, havent you taught them how to cross roads? How are they going to manage every other road other than the school crossing?

This seems to be about a vague fear of something, but you cant say what. There is an obsession with childrens safety that is effectively paranoia, because unless you can identify and calculate actual risks, its all nonsense.

1. I would expect a 4/5 year old to always be in the company of an adult outside of school/home. It is rather bizarre to have random people hanging around/walking through a school. Public right of access would make sense.

2 I presume you mean without a lollipop person. It's not an issue for DDs, but again people allow younger children (5/6/7) to walk to school on the assumption that there is help crossing a very busy road. They're too young to be expected to cross a road that busy on their own. (As to whether it's right to allow them to walk on their own is another question. Again, this is not an issue for my DDs.) You seem to be suggesting that a child from 4 years up should be capable of crossing all roads in their own?

As is clear from all the other posts, this was a question about what's typical/culturally accepted. Conclusion...Scotland has more 'liberal' approaches, English schools are more likely to watch over kids.

Risks...perhaps you should read again....busy roads, no supervision for younger children as they leave and no where for them to go if they're not collected, question of fire procedures (answered).

Dont I've been thinking back to when D'S was in primary 1& 2. The teachers would come out with the children and wait to make sure that there was someone there to collect them. If a parent was running late they would escort them to the school office to wait.

As I mentioned above my son started to go home (unescorted) for lunch around age 8/9. On occasion the lollipop lady/man would be absent. Not an issue for me at that age but I would not want a 5yr old doing crossing without one!

But if you were late, then surely you would have told your child what to do?

Kids change a lot between only just 4 and nearly 6, so a 4/5 year old isn't one creature IMO.

I'd be 100% fine with this for a nearly 6 yo - it sounds like our school and one of mine started just before turning 6 due to when her birthday falls - got herself to school from day 2, unfenced play areas, allowed to go to the village shop before school after getting off school bus.

Kids here are trained to cross roads by local police via Kindergarten the term before they start school - they have a series of lessons and practices. Obviously it is assumed parents are and have been teaching the skills too. However the police lineis 6 is the age at which children can cross a quiet road and should be walking to school in groups wwithout an adult. The busy roads are staffed by parent volunteers (I do it once a week, it's expected unless you work full time and even then many send a grandparent in their place to do their share).

I'd not be too happy with this for my not long turned 4 yo though - 2 years or even 20 months or so makes a world of difference at this age and judging by his older siblings he'll be a different creature by age 6.

i don't know what other people tell their children to do if they don't turn up. DD1 has always gone to after school club, which is in the same building as the school and she goes straight there with her friends. The only people present after 3.15 and the only way to get into the school building is via the separate entrance to the club.

If, like us, you are 1) out of catchment; 2) don't know anyone in the area to tell them where to go and there is no way for the kids to get back in the school and no teachers around, what do you tell your kids to do? I can understand a 7 or 8 year old having the sense to walk around to the after school club entrance, but a 4 year old? I would hope a parent would notice and help out, but you can't rely on that.

DD2 was due to start school last August and would have been 4.5 (no reception year here)--no way could she have got herself to school, dealt with nobody turning up etc. We held her back a year (which you can do here for January and February birthdays) and I'm sure she'd be better, although she's still got no sense of danger b

I dealt at 4 and a half with my dad being half an hour late picking me up from a Scottish primary school.
In Germany, some pre school provision let 3 and 4 year olds go outside at home time, and it is up to the parents to be there on time to collect them. Also not unusual to see 5 year olds travelling across big cities on their own to get to school.
But to do all this, children need to learn what to do, and that takes teaching.

Have you raised these concerns with the school?

All the schools in my area of Scotland have a bell/intercom arrangement at the front door of the school. The Secretary leaves early but senior management are in their offices located by the front door.

Best thing to do is pop into the school or phone after the holidays to raise your concerns.

DS's school, also in Scotland, sounds completely different. DC are supervised all the time and nothing has been mentioned about going home for lunch (I assume it's very very rare). DC are looked after by teachers until someone comes to pick them up, even if you are late. Relatively busy area, so little ones never walk to school or anywhere else alone. Maybe from when they are 8ish..