to think most parents of four year old boys worry about this....

[DunnTrying]

Think at various stages That their sons (may well apply to girls as well but I've only experience of boys!!) either are deaf, having hearing issues or are adhd? The inability of my son to sit still for more than 2 seconds or listen to anything I say makes me question this ten times a day!! However whenever I talk to others about this, including teacher friends and gps I'm reassured most parents of 4yr olds think this.

We had DS2's hearing checked!

He can hear just fine, it is the listening that troubles him.

I'm sorry but anyone who believes that the averagefour year old boy behaves like the average four year old girl just hasn't spent much time around children. Whether the behavioural differences are inherent or driven by society's attitudes is another matter for debate.

And Winter, it sounds like you are having a difficult time, and you have my sympathy, but you are being unescessarily harsh and dismissive of other people's concerns.

In our case it was glue ear. I didn't realise til my friend told me that her son needed grommets and she felt guilty for getting cross for constany
tly not listening and saying 'what? what?' all the time.

And I thought 'actually ds1 does that.' And so to the hearing clinic who confirmed he really didn't hear so well.

Yes, i went to the gp with "we think its just selective hearing but..." too. Same gp (not mine) stated that i am categorically not asd, and that ds did not have adhd as he looked at him when he asked him too.

To cloud things too, i had grommits fitted as a child

Don't know about the hearing thing - the listening thing is very familiar.

I have three boys. the 9yo has ADHD, the 7YODTs don't. All of them are very active, never 'off' and impulsive. DS1 is impulsive and aggressive and inattentive at home and school and in other environments.

I can't say for certain whether I would be worried about the DTs if I didn't have DS1 to contend with - he's on a different level to them. We have had 'all boys do this' many times. Its also very hard to explain to outsiders what 'won't go to bed' or 'can't sit at the table' or 'can't stop himself from running into the road' and so on actually mean. Having the others throws him into relief.

I'd say any concerns are worth noting down. write an account of his behaviour on a typical day. Then have a look in three or six months. This will either reassure you or confirm that he's still doing the things you're observing.

Down the line if you still worry then if you ask to be referred having a time line and history will help you and enable timely referral.

I would say that if you genuinely have concerns get referred to CAMHS now because it takes years to get a diagnosis, and they are reluctant to give a diagnosis to a child who is just having a few difficulties. CAMHS will offer parenting classes or some kinds of therapy even if there isn't a diagnosis. I'm firmly of the opinion that you should never turn down help in these situations.

I agree with Winter. I think OP was being whimsical re ADHD, but I think it's a term bandied about far too frequently. Why should four year olds sit still? I don't think they should - unless they want to. It's perfectly normal for them (boys AND girls) to be running, jumping, climbing - they are four, they have energy to burn. Their little bodies are fit and agile.
I'm not sending my four year old to school this autumn, no doubt he will be labelled as something because he doesn't want to sit still when someone else wants him to (perfectly capable of sitting still when he wants to). I think too many people expect too much of four year olds.

Worth a read: thespiritscience.net/2015/07/10/adhd-does-not-exist-why-french-children-dont-have-adhd/

It applies to my dd too.

If the telly is on she hears nothing. She gets that from her dad though so think it is hereditary. They both also only hear the things they want to, like.do you want some chocolate (for dd) or a beer for dh - they don't necessarily get these things but I do say them as a hearing test!

Also.I thought dd needed glasses for ages but it turns out she just couldn't be arsed with reading.

Apparently adhd drugs are almost never prescribed in Italy havei for the.the reasons you have stated. Not so.much that adhd is not real but that medication is rarely the answer.

My.aunt used to be a head teacher and she recommended before school cross country club for kids who found it hard to sit still etc. Worked a treat apparently.

Not to trivialise those who really have adhd because I meet them.in the course of my work, and it is different to what op and pps have described. But perhaps it is too easily jumped on as an easy label.

I have 2 DSs who need telling everything at least three times, but can honestly say it's never crossed my mind that it's anything medical, nor have I heard any other parent voice similar concerns. Their hearing's fine, they just don't listen. If you have genuine concerns, don't let them be dismissed. If you are just over-thinking it (e.g. they do pass the crisp packet/biscuit tin tests), then you can stop worrying.

If you think your child is deaf get their hearing tested. Everyone should do this and eyesight test before their child starts school anyway.

Do not like the sexist drivel on this thread. Girls don't listen, are wriggly yada yada as well.

Sorry Haveigot and Morelike that article is just someone's opinion. It has no authority and its badly written. Some pertinent points are blown up in it, and it's important to contextualise this:

USA v France: remember that the USA situation with medics and access to them is completely different. Having a common language means we read a lot of their books and hear opinion from a lot of their child specialist - in both directions. A lot of this is irrelevant. We don't have drugs handed out like sweeties in this country, we don't have children seeing paediatricians who can diagnose ADHD regularly - our kids see GPs in the first instance. GPs can't give out Ritalin and they don't diagnose ADHD. To be diagnosed with ADHD here you have to be referred and you have to be assessed by multiple practitioners. They don't give out Ritalin (or similar) if they don't think it will work (my DS1 wasn't offered it) and when they do the teacher has to fill out a detailed diary before and after the medication starts to ascertain whether it's working.

In France their healthcare is very different again, and I don't know too much about it. But who's to say there aren't a lot of children going with out support or help because they aren't diagnosed?

FWIW my son can go swimming twice in a day and still be jumping on the bed at 11pm. Many schools are good at making sure that they don't make the kids sit still for too long, encourage movement as part of learning, and use the best parts of the day for tasks involving concentration. This helps all the children but it comes from a willingness to be inclusive.

Its intersting the response here, I deliberately phrased this in a non offensive, light manner as when I lastasked a similar question about adhd, the thread became over run by people hammering me for daring to be concerned about things others found normal, and how dare I worry about adhd etc. This was sometime ago and my concerns have ccontinued so I thought I'd come from an approach of normalisation, ie do others worry the same. The gender thing I canmot comment on as I said my experience is with boys, and it is my son I am concerned about. I have just dropped him off at nursery and happened to have the opportunity to discuss concerns with the staff there, though they note nothing particularly wrong, they do agree he is definitely in the top 10% of boisterousness in their experience and struggles to listen more than the average. Does this mean he has adhd, no of course not, does it mean I have niggles of concern that I want to work through - yes it does. With some of the ridiculous things we read on mumsnet and people give credit too, I'm surprised by such a negative response from some as I am just trying to work out whether I should be concerned or not. Sorry I approach it in a lighthearted way, I meant no offense to those really struggling through this issues on a daily basis. I'm having a tough time trying to understand and positively mange this behaviour - lightheartedness is my sanity!

Apologies for spelling errors- cannot use this silly tab thing for long messages!!

Catgotyourbrain - my ds1 sounds just like your ds1. He does balance this aggression with sweetness and kindness, but can be a real handful when and the more he gets wound up the harder it is to bring him back down...

Given the (official) French view on autism, the levels of support available for individuals with this condition (like, for instance, an education), I really would take anything they have to say about ADHD with a pinch of salt.

Never occurred to me - not trying to be snipey but it didn't!

Sorry you're having a tough time

OP that's why I say write an account for your use later - at nine years old this is more unusual, and it becomes clearer with age if there is a difference.

Writing an account is win-win - think how reassured you'll be looking back when he changes as he moves on to the next stage.

Thanks cat, I do keep a general family diary so might use this to add in these bits. I feel guilty even thinking about his behaviour as not being normal, like either I'm trying to label him or I've not done my job as a parent properly.

The article linked on this thread is absolutely ridiculous. No basis in medical science, just an opinion. And an incorrect one at that.

DunnTrying if you have concerns, ask either GP or school nurse for a referral to a paediatrician who can discuss it with you thoroughly and look into it further.

The behaviours you describe sound normal unless significantly impacting on your ds life. If it is at the level of special needs then it is usually very difficult to do any tasks at all, can't concentrate on anything even recreational stuff for more than a couple of minutes, never,ever stops talking (unless tv is on). Going outside is a military operation type of thing. That is what it is like with my dd anyway.

We didn't go for diagnosis until age 7 as I thought inability to sit still,never stopping talking and constant fidgeting was normal girl behaviour. I haven't reached the level of being able to manage those things yet. Turns out she has got special needs, and in hindsight it is obvious. I just always
thought typical girl of my family.

Thanks pink, this is what I struggle with, his behaviours are very inconsistent which makes me feel its just exuberance, then other times it just feels unmanageable. For example I can't get him to sit still and concentrate if I read with him, but watch a film and he'll sit enthraled for the the whole thing.

Well, he sounds like many 4 year old boys (mine also had selective hearing, although they did eventually fit grommets!) and wasn't keen on sitting and listening for long periods. He is now 14 and not much better but definitely not deaf or ADHD.

I would listen to what the nursery staff are saying - if they are concerned and think you should get a referral done, then I would do it. They will have lots of experience with small boys. If they think he is pretty normal, then just keep an eye on the situation. Boys do seem to have a "testosterone surge" at that age.

Does he start school in September?

Yeah she watch tv all week same things over and over deadly silent. Any other situation you just can't relax ever. It is near impossible to have a conversation with anyone if she is there, even in my own house.

With boys and girls they often put you off when you are young.It becomes obvious as they get older as they act like 3 year olds even when they are significantly older ime. Mine has asd but I believe adhd is often a co morbid condition.

I mean she would do the tv thing constantly if I let her!