To be proud that the uk taxpayers are helping Greece

[returningtotheuksoon]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3159806/British-taxpayers-liable-1BILLION-emergency-loans-Greece.html

Typical daily mail outrage. But I think its brilliant that the uk tax payers are helping the Greek people. We are all part of Europe and I'd like to think if there were people suffering in our country other countries in Europe would help out. This is a country where many pensioners are going without as their money has been halved. I know I would struggle if I was given a 50% pay decrease.

But Chalalala they had half the debt written off 5 years ago. The original lenders took a haircut at the last negotiations and withdrew. Because, following that haircut, no private lender would want to lend money to Greece, the financial institutions of the Eurozone (i.e. its taxpayers) as well as the IMF (i.e. the tax payers of its member states, at least for the democracies) had to step into the breach. They did so in order to stabilise Greece, to avert a national bankrupcy and to prevent further speculation against other states such as Spain, Italy, Portugal, Ireland or even France. They succeeded in stabilising Greece, but the Greeks did not use the lull prudently (as they had promised as a condition of the bailout) and failed to improve tax collection, stamp out endemic state corruption, improve business environment and so on. In fact, they have shown time and time again that they'd rather continue the lifestyle that led them to this disaster, and have shown no inclination whatsoever to improve their situation. They have not run a surplus budget in over 40 years. Needless to say after calling your main lenders terrorists and Nazis and utterly failing to implement much needed and promised reforms the German people are getting a bit fed up with the Greek position. Weirdly, a clear majority of Greeks still seems to want to stay in the eurozone, even though it (along with their own monumental national profligacy and personal unwillingness to contribute) is one of the chief architects of their current reduced circumstance.

Sorry meant to say corrupt!

Yes, I lived in Greece for a while. My friend had a government job and also ran a very successful café. She 'worked'with another friend of ours (or she would have done if either of them turned up). He ran a very successful plumbing business.
All cash in hand.
The Greek government held an amnesty a few years back. All those people who hadn't paid tax could pay around €2k and have their bill written off.

I do feel for the Greek people. However, I think our own poor, pensioners and disabled are a little bit more deserving.

Having relatives that live in Greece, I can tell you tax evasion is rife and accepted.

I am glad we are helping them. But it's in vain. The people there are going to go to further lengths to protect what money they do have.

I don't know what the answer, but I don't believe it's to keep throwing obey at their banks

will bailing them out solve the underlying problems?

Apparently George Osborne has said that he will not agree to using uk tax payers money for this bail out.

No, I don't think it's great at all, not when we have very poor people ourselves, a health service in crisis and school budgets being cut. We are saving 12 billion cutting benefits to pay off our deficit and giving a huge chunk of it to pay off Greece's.

For me, attitudes would have to change. Pension age increase, robust tax collection, civil servants made to work 37h per week etc. These are not unreasonable requirements if the UK taxpayer is to help them out! They can't carry on as they were. I'm fairly charitable, but recipients have to be sensible.

As a pp wrote, George Osborne probably senses that people will think about voting to leave the EU if Greece gets bailed out but nothing changes there.

We have just given another loan to the country which, despite agreeing to pay back the original loan, have come back on their word.

Try going to a bank for a personal loan when you have an outstanding loan which you have defaulted on. The banks would laugh you out of the premises.

This is exactly what's happening with Greece, except we aren't laughing. We can kiss that money goodbye whilst pensioners here in the UK are struggling, we'll be working until we are 70+, the NHS is overstretched...

Yeah, I can really think of better things to do with that money.

Exactly and would be nice to retire at 50 with a full salary wouldn't it?
This is making me so angry that Germany, UK & France are looked at as the bad guys.
We as a country have had to live with lots of cuts.
We have to pay our taxes.

Sorry but look up the retirement ages , Greece is in the middle of European retirement ages

@ returningtotheuksoon. Are you Greek? You do seem quite invested and overly keen for the UK to give Greece nearly £1bn when we're about to face £12bn of austerity ourselves.

No one has said it was at the top middle or bottom so what's your point? People's main issue is the fact the Greek government ask for loans and then don't pay them back when the rest of the EU do.

And also the slight tax evasion issues

I'm not happy about this. Especially when our own government are making cuts left right and centre.

I only need to look at threads on here to see families struggling to live and tax credits being taken off our own people.

Greece should never have been allowed to enter the euro in the first place but everyone turned a blind eye. They included the black economy to make the figures look better.

The politicians then couldn't believe their luck - being able to borrow money cheaply because they were in the same club as Germany/France.

Now they are paying the price but the euro zone countries should take some responsibility for this mess too.

Not sure why the uk has to be involved in the bailout - or the other non- euro EU countries.

There was an interesting episode of more or less on radio 4 this week which disproves that Greeks are more productive than Germans but also lots if other stats used on both sides of the argument.

Also length of hours worked isn't the same as productivity.

Anyone can sit in their air con office drinking coffee for 9 hours shuffling bits of paper around

Can't say im too chuffed with it tbh.

I'm not too chuffed.
It should not happen.
Austerity in this country will plunge millions more kids into poverty.
Yet we are going to give more money to financially corrupt country who have reneged on previous loan. Who were loaned cash in the past where they were supposed to invest into the country and didn't.. They spunked on who knows what.

They need to sort out this shit themselves and if that means the corruption stops. Taxes are paid. People do the job they are paid for. And ridiculous pension pay outs are stop. Then so bloody what. You cannot take and take without paying to meet the costs.

What is the point loaning them more. They won't pay taxes. Work the jobs they are supposed to . And the golden pensions will continue.

You can be proud if you like OP, but I am disgusted. The Greeks have brought all of this on themselves and I fail to see why we should be bailing them out when we aren't even in the eurozone.

No I'm not happy, they caused their situation and keep expecting everyone else to sort it out for them!

How about Greek taxpayers help Greece?

Easy to forget that most Greeks are ordinary people trying to work, trying to manage best for their families. They didn't fiddle numbers and they wouldn't know anything about how to fiddle official numbers for the EU. They just tried to hope for the best.

People on pensions are currently supporting whole families who can't get work. People are seriously worried about return of famine, soaring crime rates & political extremism (1920s Germany, anyone?)

One of my projects is EU funded & I chat a lot with a Greek colleague who had a baby last year. She didn't make this whole mess happen but her family will suffer. She was a project manager on the recent Athens Olympics, btw, says that it was a corrupt fest from start to finish.

"Cheesecake1980 Tue 14-Jul-15 19:00:14
Apparently George Osborne has said that he will not agree to using uk tax payers money for this bail out."

wow if that is true that will be the first time I will have liked some thing he has done