To get weary of the stance re male teachers

[GetSomeCatsOut]

AIBU to get a little fed up with the attitude expressed by some that a teacher is superior in the classroom (particularly but not always) the primary classroom?

I have actually had people say to my face 'that class needs a MAN!' or in the case of male candidates for interview 'oh fantastic; that's just what we need!'

It seems acceptable to be casually sexist in a way that the equivalent prejudice in say racism wouldn't be expressed.

Have others experienced this?

[GetSomeCatsOut]

I'm not convinced by the male/female role model argument.

I think regardless of our sex, we need to show children what it is to be a human role model.

Kindness, tolerance, courage, humour and determination can be taught by women and men.

[MadHenLady]

I agree that we need more men in primary schools btw, but I certainly would not want a male being chosen over a female just because he has a penis. I want my child taught by the person who is best fitted for that job

[LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett]

I'm working with a major oil company just now who are working very hard to recruit women, because they believe diversity is a good thing. They believe if you do what you've always done (recruit White men) you'll get what you've always got (not a great position for a fossil fuel company).

Diversity is important in every walk of life and should be welcomed, IMO.

[GetSomeCatsOut]

But that is what happens Purple

Not - 'fabulous, a teacher with great experience with this age group who is a man' but - 'oh look, A Man.'

If that's offensive in your eyes then I agree: that's my point. Candidates should be taken on their own merits and not what is between their legs!

[OrangeVase]

And there are specific requests for teachers of specific ethnicity as "this group is under represented in this organisation/field/role"

A balance is important. We had a good balance in primary - including a couple of gay teachers, (1 male , 1 female). We were lucky. Good London primary.

[Goshthatsspicy]

I think the very fact they are male brings a good feeling . Some children don't have any positive male role models...
Men and women are different (obviously) it can never be a bad thing, to have a variation.

[TTWK]

What do you think they can do that female teachers can't?

Drill the year 6 first 11 on how to push up from the back and play the offside trap.

[GetSomeCatsOut]

There is a jump here from my post which originally expressed concern over the fact that a man is automatically deemed better than a woman because he is a man.

That isn't the same as saying 'men should not be encouraged to teach.'

Let's say there are four candidates and one is male and he is chosen because someone says 'well we need a man for that class!' even though the three women are better qualified and have more experience.

That would be wrong. Yet that viewpoint is being expressed.
Male teacher = good teacher. Female teacher = two a penny!

[LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett]

Let's say there are four candidates and one is male and he is chosen because someone says 'well we need a man for that class!' even though the three women are better qualified and have more experience.

Yes, that's massively wrong. And discriminatory. And actually illegal.

[GetSomeCatsOut]

TheTrouble - I can absolutely see there is an argument for trying to address the balance (women in STEM, for example.)

My concern is that this is seen as something beneficial for the children rather than for the men.

Garbled point? Possibly. For instance, someone saying 'we need to get more women into STEM positions; they are clearly capable and these positions are highly paid and lucrative' is great.

Saying 'we need men in primary as these women aren't much good and plus so many children are from single parent backgrounds' isn't!

Besides, it's the education of the single parent, not her sex, that determines outcomes for her child.

[lilacblossomtime]

I think the reverse will be true at university level, parents of girls especially will welcome female professors as great role models for their daughters.

[Goshthatsspicy]

I don't think people think men are better though. They think: "Thank god, something different" the very fact they are male ( in a female dominated profession) gives them an edge.

[howabout]

Madhenlady The consensus among DDs and me is that boys always want to impress the pretty young blonde teacher and therefore behave and work hard for her

[GetSomeCatsOut]

Yet if you try to apply that argument to any other protected characteristic it is prejudice Gosh, so I do wonder why it's seen as acceptable and appropriate in this instance.

I have taught for ten years, for five at a senior level so involved in shortlisting and recruitment and believe me, the arguments I've heard here about children 'needing' male teachers and them being 'good' with discipline and the like are nothing new.

I just haven't yet worked out why its acceptable!

[GinAndSonic]

I think it is very important to have male role models for boys. Im a single mum, with a DD and a DS. My DS is lovely, but he does need male role models. Not to teach him masculinity, but just to show him men in his life who are well balanced, reliable and care for him. His dad is crap, my dad is an alcoholic, racist, sexist, homophobic arse. He needs to build relationships with adult males who have their shit together. Teachers and TAs are ideal for this, especially since my kids really buy into the whole hero-worshipping their teacher thing.

[PtolemysNeedle]

It's not a schools job to make up for a lack of male role models at home, nor is it their job to represent a good balance of the population, but that doesn't mean that parents and school staff can't be pleased about to when they do.

[PurpleDaisies]

Saying 'we need men in primary as these women aren't much good and plus so many children are from single parent backgrounds' isn't!

I really don't think it is. I think you're letting a personal agenda cloud your thinking here. If men are genuinely being employed just because of their gender that's obviously completely wrong, as it would be if a woman were not hired for a position because of hers.

I think if we want to try and achieve equal numbers of women in careers such as engineering and politics we need to look at other professions where there is a huge disparity in the gender balance and think about how to change that.

[CaptainHolt]

During my dcs time at primary school there have been 3 male teachers. They were all there at once for one year. Two of them have been, imo, crap teachers and I wouldn't be surprised if their maleness had swung the job for them. One was on a 1 year contract which he re-applied for and didn't get. The other male teacher is really good. We are lucky that we have 2 LGBT teachers but we have no BAME teachers and I would like a little more diversity, but we are a rural school and, to be fair, the ethnic make up of the staff (English majority with Scottish, Italian, Irish and Polish) is broadly representative of the school and my (BAME) dcs have never been subjected to racism.

[GetSomeCatsOut]

Gin

My concern is that in their enthusiasm to employ a male, teachers who manifestedly do not 'have their shit together' have been appointed over perfectly competent females, with results that are negative for everybody.

A male teacher may be the better candidate but it isn't because he is male. Depressingly, many people disagree.

The number of male primary teachers are minute. The number of male primary head teachers and deputy head teachers are not quite so minute. Isn't that worrying to anybody?

[GinAndSonic]

And i work my university educated arse off for my kids, but the one thing i cant demonstrate myself to either one of my kids is that man =/= someone who will make you feel bad about yourself. I can tell them. But they really need to feel it for themselves.

[Jemimapuddlemuck]

I think male primary school teachers (esp early years ones) are still (ridiculously) viewed with suspicion by some people - so the positive response is a sort of pre-emptive defence of them. And an acknowledgement that as in any job balance is good.

[MayPolist]

Residentials need a male teacher.Our school is very small and this poses a problem .In the past they have had to organise with the LEA co-opt a father who is a teacher in a secondary school

[CaptainHolt]

The number of male primary teachers are minute. The number of male primary head teachers and deputy head teachers are not quite so minute. Isn't that worrying to anybody?

It's similar in nursing

[Alibabsandthe40Musketeers]

It is acceptable because primary schools should have a better balance between male and female teachers.

Have you never worked in a predominantly male environment? Similar comments are made about how having more women in a team/office would be a good thing.

DS1's infants, while excellent in many ways, has an entirely female staff, except the caretaker.
He is moving up to the juniors in september and has a male teacher. DH and I are delighted because I think it will be a good change, and a balance from having been taught by women for three years. He isn't in need of male role models - he has plenty of those in his life - but we are still pleased.