to think Brian May could be anti foxhunting without......

[fortyfide]

telling an hunting geezer "you are all f+cking liars" (Newsnight TV thurs)
I am anti foxhunting too and Cameron should not try to sneak it back

Debate in Parliament on Tuesday

[TheOriginalSteamingNit]

I don't campaign about either. One is in the news because parliament might vote to reintroduce it and one isn't, that's why people are talking about it.

[Kardamyli]

That's true Nit. And a great shame that so many people's priorities are such that they will rant and rave about the quick death of a (probably elderly) fox but couldn't care less about the miserable life of the pig that gave them the bacon in their bacon butty. Provided it's cheap they just don't care. Very sad that people have their priorities so skewed.

[Kardamyli]

And to answer the OPs original post, Brian May is a gigantic cock the same as the self righteous but tax dodging Bonio and that idiot Geldof.

[Jasonandyawegunorts]

couldn't care less about the miserable life of the pig

If i was treated like that pig i would probably want to die.

So it works out okay in my head.

[Backforthis]

People have always used animals for food. It's commonly accepted as necessary. We try to raise welfare standards. Have regulations about how animals should be kept and killed. Torturing and killing animals for entertainment is something that the vast majority of people are against.

A tiny minority want to kill foxes for 'sport'. I'm sure you'd find people who would like to be involved with bear baiting, dog fighting, bull baiting etc. Is it ok because there are already animals being ill treated? Was it wrong for people to campaign against the testing of makeup or cleaning products on animals because drug companies would still use them to test drugs on?

[Kardamyli]

Back, if you've never been on a fox hunt I don't see how you can know that it involves, in your words, torture. I think you've just gone along with the rhetoric and self righteous smuggery of the "only toffs go hunting" brigade. In my experience there is no torture involved in hunting a fox. The majority of young healthy foxes aren't caught by the hunt and live to enjoy another free range day. Much more torture is involved in shooting where it is very common for a fox to be injured, but not killed. Those foxes must surely die a slow agonising death.

You sound lovely Jason. However, I'm not surprised, all most people care about when it comes to food is how cheap it is.

[Kardamyli]

Posted too soon. Again Back, animal testing involves the prolonged suffering of animals (just like factory farming). Fox hunting does not involve the prolonged suffering of animals. If foxes aren't hunted they will be shot (otherwise they have a bad habit of trying to eat all the small farm animals which aren't locked up in sheds). As I've explained above far more suffering is caused to foxes by shooting than hunting.

[Butkin]

Delighted that most of the MPs in our region are going to vote to amend the Hunting Bill - should never have been banned in the first place. So sad when it seems to develop into a class war issue. I'd say only about 10 per cent of the people who hunt with our pack are really well off. Most are just normal folk and there are quite a few people who you would assume would vote Labour if that party weren't anti.

[MaidOfStars]

OP, the second thread on foxhunting + Bruan May in as many days....and the second I've replied to.

For reference, he didn't call anyone '(a) fucking liar(s)'.

And given your blankness re: the Srebenica section, I'm now assuming you didn't actually watch the episode of Newsnight in question.

[Backforthis]

So would dog fighting be ok if it was really mismatched and over quickly? Would bear baiting be ok if the bear was old and sick?

[Kardamyli]

Back, your arguments are getting quite desperate now! No, I don't think organised dog fights or bear baiting would be ok in the circumstances you describe. The difference is that neither animal would be shot as an alternative to dog fights or bear baiting as a means of population control.

Think I've taken up too much space already on this thread. I've said my bit and am now off to bed.

[Lurkedforever1]

The other fact most people miss is that the vast majority of those following the hunt on horses really aren't there to see a fox killed. They are there for the riding and for some the social aspect. Riding on land that for the most part is only allowed on the basis the hunt staff ( not the followers) are providing a service. And the hunt staff need the followers for the cost of upkeep. Which is why despite the ban many people trail hunt, because it's still providing the riding. And why long before any talk of the ban there were drag hunts

[Backforthis]

You raised the fact that it's over quickly and it targets the weaker animals. I was wondering if you thought that made it somehow less cruel.

[Backforthis]

Humane trapping followed by shooting guarantees a quick kill too, but no one gets a day out from it.

[BertrandRussell]

"Are there any arguments against fox hunting other than animal cruelty?"
It's not primarily about animal cruelty for me. It's about the deeply unpleasant idea of people of whatever class indulging in a ritual which involves the killing of an animal. Foxes need to be controlled. Fox hunting is a very inefficient and distasteful way of doing it. Which reflects very badly on humanity. Nobody condones bull fighting. But that too is an archaic ritual killing of an animal.

[dani002]

I get it that foxes need to be controlled but don't go making a sport out of it. Thats just fucked up.

[Lurkedforever1]

Trapping, however physically humane we think it is, is far more mentally stressful and frightening than hunting from the foxes point of view. At least running from hounds it's got an outlet for the adrenaline produced through fear, in a trap it hasn't got that outlet. The very fear of being trapped is why animals will chew their own limbs off or mortally wound themselves in an attempt to get free from some types of traps. Like mice do sometimes with the glue traps sold in many shops that the population in general don't object to as barbaric. I'm not a wild animal but give me the choice of running with someone after me wanting to kill me, or leave me in a cell waiting for it and I know what I'd choose. It also doesn't take into account that a young healthy fox has very high odds on getting away from hounds, but traps don't allow selection. Not just unfair short term but detrimental to the population as a whole.
A trained marksman with the skill to stalk, and select the foxes that do need culling, and kill outright every time then yes I'd agree is the most humane. But in reality shooting is too unregulated to go like that

[Lurkedforever1]

So's halal meat (real halal where it's not pre stunned) but nobody is calling to ban that.

[Backforthis]

You don't have to shoot every fox you find in a trap!

[dani002]

What has halal meat got to do with killing for sport?

[southeastastra]

tell prince philip that using the word fuck is frowned up

it's bloody barbaric that we are still hunting with hounds now

bloody upper class pursuits they need to learn to live in the real world

[SonceyD0g]

I don't see the point in even arguing about it. It an unenforcable law. Fox hunting has carried on exactly the same as it did before the ban. I suspect the government is trying to pass another law at the same time which it would rather not see in the media!

[Lurkedforever1]

backforthis if you aren't trapping to shoot them then it really is pointless cruelty.
dani because someone mentioned fox hunting being an archaic ritual killing. Which is to my mind is exactly the same as halal. Both involve killing an animal that needs to be killed, but neither uses what in the modern world is the most humane means available because the old way is the cultural tradition.

[dani002]

Using another barbaric ritual to defend another barbaric ritual does not make it right though.

Why not lamping as a method of fox control?