to think Brian May could be anti foxhunting without......

[fortyfide]

telling an hunting geezer "you are all f+cking liars" (Newsnight TV thurs)
I am anti foxhunting too and Cameron should not try to sneak it back

Debate in Parliament on Tuesday

[schloss]

I wrote this on the other thread but worth saying here as well. The debate is to amend the current legislation to bring it in line with Scotland.

More foxes are shot and snared now. Fox Cubs are left to starve to death when the mother is killed by those who shoot and snare foxes. This is cruelty and yet was as a direct result of the current "ban" however this is never commented on?

[TheCrowFromBelow]

kardamyli it was Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall and I think that one of his crew members cried when they saw the chickens in their barn, yet she still went and bought 2 for her tea. don't get me started on danish bacon...

& sorry OP - YANBU Brian May shouldn't have been all sweary.

[Jasonandyawegunorts]

Something is wrong with Brian in recent years, I don't know if it's his age or what but he's outright lying about things.

[TheCrowFromBelow]

I'm not sure what the correlation between people who eat battery chicken and people who oppose hunting with hounds is

The correlation may be very small, but one of the key arguments against hunting is that it is animal cruelty for human's pleasure.

However, people eat cheap meat that has been farmed in horrible conditions because they like eating meat; meat isn't actually a daily necessity (although I know huge amount of MNers disagree with this!).

I find it odd that those same people can gloss over this fact yet get so hung up on hunting, and not about starving fox cubs. It's an exceptionally emotive issue.

But I am totally derailing OPs thread.

[Kardamyli]

Sorry, I didn't me kemp yield clear. My point is that people say they want to ban fox hunting on animal cruelty grounds but many of those same people are very happy to eat factory farmed meat and chicken. Factory farming is inherently cruel, so to me those people are hypocrites. In the days before factory farming chicken was seen as a luxury item by most people, certainly not something affordable to be eaten every week.

There is no need to eat as much meat as we do in the UK, there are far better and cheaper forms of protein to be had so those who justify the cruelty in factory farming on the grounds of need are, in my opinion, talking shit.

[Lurkedforever1]

I've no statistics on it, but given the majority of the population eats cheap meat, and the majority are against hunting I'd say there was a fair chance many people are in both majority groups. Also if I add up those I've met that are either vegan or produce their own dairy and meat (cos we all know the cheap dairy industry is no better than the cheap meat one right?) or buy only free range from the farmer type food ( not the rspca freedom food bollocks) they're very much in the minority.

[Kardamyli]

Bloody ipad! Above should say, "sorry I didn't make myself clear"

[Kardamyli]

Are there any arguments against fox hunting other than animal cruelty? I suppose there is the "it's only for toffs" argument but that just seems petty minded rather than a rational reason for banning something.

[TiggyD]

"Do bad bad things happen to everyone who eats battery chickens or beer from cows who've been kept in sheds all their lives?" - A townie by any chance?

[SweetAndFullOfGrace]

The reason they're discussing bringing back fox hunting is because it gives the media (and a lot of other people apparently) a nice simple target to froth at the mouth about, which neatly diverts attention from what the government is actually doing. Lynton Crosby is past master at this, he used to do exactly the same thing for the Australian Howard government.

And you're all falling for it

[Lurkedforever1]

kardymyli I think the toffs thing is a huge part of it myself because of the huge misconception it's only an upper class pursuit. Otherwise why is lamping which is no different but traditionally a lower class pursuit all but ignored? Plus the fact the majority of the population live in towns and it's not rare for their only knowledge of hunting to come from propaganda

[Kardamyli]

Er no Tiggy, a typo perhaps from an iPad that has spent all its working life in the country. Perhaps it's hankering after beer instead of cows.

[TiggyD]

Always thought those Apple products were probably alcoholics.

[Kardamyli]

Sweet, im not falling for anything and I'm sure most other people aren't either. I have no objection to fox hunting (though haven't hunted since I was a teenager) and think it is a lot more humane than battery farming. I also have no objection to the welfare cuts, which is I assume what you mean by "what the government is actually doing". Let me know if I've misunderstood what you meant.

[Twinkie1]

Brian May is in the same ranks as Bonio and Geldof, what else do you expect from him?

[Backforthis]

It's killing animals as entertainment. It's up there with dog fighting and bear baiting.

[JudgeJudy79]

So what are people's views on shooting? Fishing?

[Kardamyli]

Fishing appears to me to be quite cruel, in that I always think a fish out of water must be like an animal deprived of oxygen. Don't see the fun in it either as it looks pretty boring - but clearly lots of people do like fishing. Doesn't seem any less cruel than fox hunting. Shooting, not all that cruel as I think the majority of birds will die as soon as they are shot. On all the shoots I have been on I've seen very few birds alive on the ground once shot. Definitely a lot less cruel than battery farmed chickens! And yes, the birds do get eaten.

[Kardamyli]

Backforthis, the entertainment in fox hunting is, for most people, nothing to do with the actual kill. Unless you've ridden a good horse over good hunting country you may not understand what that's like. You should take up riding (if you don't already ride) and go out with your local hunt to see what it's like.

[Backforthis]

I've ridden. I don't want to hunt. If it were really about the chase then hunts would be too busy having a great time chasing laid scent trails to bother foxes.

[Kardamyli]

Backforthis, I always enjoyed hunting just as much whether or not we caught a fox. As long as we chased at least one fox for a decent period the fun was the same.

I havent been hunting for years so don't know what it's been like since the ban. Maybe it just isn't the same, in the same way only being allowed to catch plastic fish would be for people who like fishing. If you don't want to go hunting I strongly suggest you visit a factory farm instead. Then you will hopefully want to campaign to improve the lives of millions of animals.

[Backforthis]

A) I don't eat meat
B) Why are you trying to equate the farming of animals for food with the killing of animals for entertainment?

[Kardamyli]

Back, I'm pleased to hear that you don't eat meat. I rarely do, and then only if I knew the animal, where it lived and the names and occupations of its parents (ok that last bit isn't true).

If your concern is the killing of animals for entertainment do you complain about sport fishing. The reason I equate factory farming of animals to fox hunting is that if the concern is animal cruelty the former is much much more cruel than the latter. Neither are necessary (you are proof of that as you don't eat meat and presumably suffer no ill effects). It seems completely arbitrary to me to decide that one form of unnecessary animal cruelty should be banned but another, which is more cruel,in that it involves prolonged lifelong suffering, should not.