to think Brian May could be anti foxhunting without......

[fortyfide]

telling an hunting geezer "you are all f+cking liars" (Newsnight TV thurs)
I am anti foxhunting too and Cameron should not try to sneak it back

Debate in Parliament on Tuesday

[Lurkedforever1]

Glad we agree raven, because like you point out giving money to an industry that causes massive animal suffering because you choose to consume cheap animal products is at least equally cruel.

[BertrandRussell]

"The fact that several people who hunt or are involved in hunts have explained that the majority of people who go hunting are far from being rich will not change their entrenched views."

I don't care how rich or poor or what social class hunting people are. The issue is that it's an incredibly inefficient way to cull animals that need to be culled. And it's incredibly bad for society to make a ritul out of killing animals.

[TheRavenChides]

sigh
You're absolutely right Lurked, there is morally no difference between someone who picks up a bottle of milk in a supermarket and someone who gets together a gang of their mates to chase and kill a terrified animal for shits and giggles

(For the record I don't consume supermarket milk or meat, but that's really not the point here. Here we are talking about cruelty for entertainment rather than economy. The two things, whilst both abhorrent, are really not comparable)

[horseygeorgie]

Butkin would just disagree with the difference between drag and traditional hunting (nicely of course! )
I live in a prestigious hunt country famed for 6 foot hedges and galloping turf and yawning big dykes on the other side. You need a serious set of cahoonies to hunt properly around here. Obviously every hunt is different though and a lot of other packs are a bit kinder.
Drag hunting is fast, furious and with little let up due to the lines laid. Fences are usually very well kept, you always know they are 100% safe to jump and are very often optional. it is a completely different type of sport (very good fun though!)

completely agree on digging out though. rarely happens anymore and used to be mainly at the request of the landowner if they were having a problem with foxes.

[Lurkedforever1]

Yes raven the animal welfare concern, rather than it being a class war explains why there is a a large amount of parliamentary interest in banning all cheap non vegan food. Oh no wait there isn't.
I used to piss myself at the double standards of all the twats that felt strongly enough to be wearing all the pro ban crap, cheerfully loading up on supermarket milk and meat. might as well have got badges saying 'I know fuck all'

[crustsaway]

I also don't agree with fox hunting, I know we need to cull but to do this as a sport the way they do is beyond barbaric - bunch of uppercrust twats.

So what if Brian May swore over such a fucking emotive subject, I'd have applauded him if I had have seen the whole interview.

I do think though that he and his partner (can't remember her name) are morphing into one looks wise though

[Butkin]

Emily, there always has been drag hunting however it's a very different type of sport to hunting in that it's usually designed to be faster and over a set course of jumps. It appeals to a different sort of rider. Many of the hunting people I know (especially the older or novice ones or those with unsuitable horses/ponies) don't like jumping. It's also quite difficult to arrange in many areas if the farmers/land owners only allow people to ride across their land if they are keeping the fox population down. Not many land owners will allow people to gallop across their precious land just for fun.

There is now line hunting which has replaced the previously legal hunting in many areas - it's supposed to mimic the pace of a real hunt with less jumping.

Digging out certainly used to occur when hunting was legal but usually only when that particular land owner had requested that foxes be cleared off that part of their land. I don' t think it happens now but I'm not sure of the current view on this within the current law as I've not been hunting since the ban (although attended many meets).

[TheRavenChides]

Another argument that frustrates me.

It has nothing to do with "Tory toffs" and everything to do with basic decency. Terrifying and torturing animals for fun is not cool.

[Kardamyli]

Lurked, you're wasting your energies. All the vegans and strict vegetarians you noticed congregating on this thread don't want to listen to anything anyone pro or neutral to fox hunting has to say. Despite their protestations, to them it is all about "Tory toffs". The fact that several people who hunt or are involved in hunts have explained that the majority of people who go hunting are far from being rich will not change their entrenched views.

[Lurkedforever1]

Because hunting is stereotyped as upperclass, same reason lamping ( 'chav' sport) was never bothered with by Tony blair. They haven't legalised bear baiting etc cos it won't win them votes. And they won't legalise hunting either. Because frankly none of them give a monkeys its all publicity, and the rspca as an organisation aren't any better.

[NoStannisNo]

If being a meat eater (and I am assuming that David Cameron is not vegan here) means that you automatically have to give the green light to all forms of animal cruelty, they why don't they legalise dog fighting, bear baiting, and all the other horrible blood sports? Why is foxhunting singled out as 'ok'?

[Lurkedforever1]

And the members of which hunt told you that *sashh?
Funny that such a high number of vegan/ home produced dairy and meat only posters have all congregated on this thread to comment on how people shouldn't be committing acts of animal cruelty for pleasure.

[sashh]

I'm struggling to understand what battery farmed chickens have to do with the fox hunting argument?

The argument goes

Foxes kill chickens.

If chickens are battery farmed then foxes can't get at them.

Poor chickens let them out to be killed by foxes and that give us an excuse to kill them (the foxes).

More than one hunt has been involved with keeping foxes captive before the hunt, which I think shows that this has nothing to do with keeping the fox population down and a lot to do with people enjoying themselves.

[NoStannisNo]

But seriously, its been banned for a few years now. What are the actual concrete reasons for wanting to bring it back? Can these people really not live without doing this for a hobby? I honestly don't get it.

[NoStannisNo]

Of course this is about class - I don't see Cameron falling over himself to make pitbull fighting legal.

[Lurkedforever1]

I've never met even very pro hunt people that state it should be allowed because battery farming is. The opinion is that it's hypocritical to be a consumer of cruelly produced food ( which again is only eaten for pleasure) and yet get on your moral high horse about hunting that is far less cruel. And the factory farming is also used to point out that animal cruelty wise there are far bigger concerns the time, money and effort put into the ban and upholding it could have been put into

[TheRavenChides]

I am always perplexed when people use the argument "fox hunting should be allowed because...battery farming"

Since when does one form of cruelty justify another? Two wrongs don't make a right and all that. Would it be acceptable for someone to justify child abuse by saying genocide happens? Ridiculous argument used by people who can't come up with a reasonable one.

(There isn't a reasonable argument by the way, taking pleasure in animal cruelty is wrong, whichever way you look at it)

[BertrandRussell]

Interesting that it appears to be OK for Prince Philip to swear at people..there's a tread going on about what a wonderful refreshing character he is.......

[Sickoffrozen]

Any killing of animals for fun is grim. The royals are just as bad.

[Jasonandyawegunorts]

You sound lovely Jason. However, I'm not surprised, all most people care about when it comes to food is how cheap it is.

Was that sarcasm?
I don't buy meat, So i'm not one of these cheap meat buying people, However I would much rather animals which have been raised in terrible conditions not live longer than they have to, rather than killing free range ones.

[BertrandRussell]

If you want an analysis of class structure then the internal workings of a hunt are an excellent place to start........

[FyreFly]

In the hunting communities I know, digging out the fox when it's gone to earth is Not Done. At all. For them, it's an extremely strict line. It divides some in the hunting community, but the most prevailing concensus is that it shouldn't happen. That does not, of course, stop certain groups doing so. It depends on the landowner and the hunt. It is not a practice I would have a hand in, whether shooting or hunting. I don't believe it is technically illegal under the current law as long as its done without dogs.Some liken it to ratting, flushing the nests out.

Drag hunting is often practiced (one of my mates has been the drag on more than one occasion ), however it is not unheard of for hounds to pick up a more interesting 'real' scent and go after that; drag hunting is not a completely infallible method.

[Lurkedforever1]

Not at all. I'm neither for nor against hunting, but I can argue either side because I know the actual facts about it. And in discussions like this I always side with pro hunters.

[dani002]

Meow. I hit a nerve obviously.

[Lurkedforever1]

Dani, if you want to form persuasive and logical arguments against hunting I suggest you actually get facts on the subject first, I usually find its the most constructive method. ( hint- a fact is something that is known and proven to be true, which isn't usually the same as what you read in bias media or your friend told you or what some moron anti wrote on Facebook)