To ask my brother to change his restaurant design 3 weeks from opening

[msmacd]

Hi there, require the input of the mumsnet jury on this one. My brother is opening a cafe/restaurant/bar. It has cost a huge amount to construct and fit-out. My mother's money (she is 70) is also riding on it's success as she is the primary investor, and has mortgaged her home. I took a sabbatical to come back to my country of origin for 4 months to help him in the critical weeks. I have also invested in it.

My brother says his intention is to target the 30-50yrs demographic in particular. He now has 700 Facebook 'likes' for his restaurant Facebook page, and tellingly the majority are woman. There is a fairly trendy man tavern/sports bar close by, so he (claims) he is trying to appeal to the women (who would then bring their partners/ families). As it is in a suburban area, he also envisages getting business from the mothers after school drop off etc, as he will be open from 7:30 and acting as a cafe with cake, coffee, breakfast etc in the mornings.

The architects created it with a bit of an industrial chic vibe, with concrete floors (which i appreciate are on trend at the moment). However, there will be some banquets and some soft/more casual seating in the cafe area at the front, as well as a more formal dining area towards the back. It also has a small garden. A large bar is in the centre of the venue, as the central/focal point.

Yesterday i saw the bar go up. I have attached a photo. That is the finished product/look. The panels are fibreglass made to look like concrete. I took the photo just after they had installed part of the front, but it spans the entire bar and curves around into the cafe area (not in photo).

I'm not a fan (to put it lightly). However, it will cause a massive uproar if I ask him to make changes. His restaurant manager (who he has been working closely with to set it up) already thinks i'm an interfering cow (ha!). It is 3 weeks from opening to the public.

Given my brother is trying to appeal primarily to women (allegedly) and attract families. i must ask... what do you think? Am i being unreasonable?

The very large cafe bar where I live is industrial chic and crammed all day with buggies and parents. Don't think any of them care what the bar is made of they just care they can all fit their buggies in. It's concrete and exposed pipes. However this market or low spenders who just have a drink or cake .

I like it

I am in the target demographic and prefer it to the sort of mismatched crockery chintzy places that seem to be everywhere. It looks a bit start at the moment, but maybe there are plans for some striking vases of flowers?

It is too late to try to do a halfway house redesign.

I would go there.

It tickles me how those previous posters who have made suggestions have given 1001 different ideas. I'm sure all are very good ideas on their own, but it highlights how too many people can become involved in the design stage, at which point you get either deadlock or a dogs breakfast.

Best to take a step back OP. It doesn't matter that the restaurant doesn't appeal to you personally, but it does matter that it appeals to a particular demographic, and doesn't become confused in who it's trying to connect with.

I think it looks good. If you wanted to attract families the I would be more inclined to go for placemats that can be coloured in with a few crayons rather than a play area.
Keeps kids quieter and sat at the table rather than running between the play area and the table every 2 minutes.

I agree that food and service are more important than décor. I'm not in love with the bar but the rest is fine and I'd check it out.

If you are in Auckland, you are likely to be familiar with the HIP groups (Cafe Kohi, Rosie's of Ponytailgate, Takapuna Beach Cafe etc). They are hugely successful and have a policy of not making provision for kids. I went to one of their cafe's very regularly when DD was tiny and the staff told me that they do not provide high chairs, toys or colouring stuff as a group policy. The staff were always super nice and friendly though and I hadn't noticed. A few toys and colouring stuff helps IMHO and would influence my choice.

I must admit to having a wee chuckle at the idea of a sign saying breastfeeding welcome though (apologies to the poster who mentioned it). That is one area we Kiwi's a street ahead in. There would be a riot if anyone suggested otherwise!

I agree Collaborate, it's fine as it is and way too late to change the design now without making the whole thing look a mess. It's true that too many cooks spoil the broth.

This is a look that appeals to its particular demographic. I like it, and I'm guessing a whole lot of other people will too.

Thank for all the continuing feedback. I'm listening to it all.
Yes there will be customer wifi.
Wiggly the UK and NZ aren't that different these days in terms of trends. I've been living in London for 15 years, but come back to NZ twice a year if i can manage it. I'd generally see similar bars/restaurants in hackney/shoreditch, than what i might in NZ's larger cities.
I asked MN as i wanted other woman's opinions. And mothers. To see if perhaps i was overreacting, which (fortunately) it appears i am. I must admit i was horrified when the bar went up (more concrete arghghghg!).I was worried it might put people off, so i'm incredibly relieved the majority say it wouldn't. I felt like a bunch of blokes got together and decided on this concrete and exposed unfinished wood look (all achingly cool) but perhaps forgot the female demographic who was supposed to be the target. But many of you like it, hurrah!
I like the idea to contact some of the Facebook followers for an early opinion/ advice. BitOut yes he has done advertising on Facebook, and yes there is a twitter account, but not used yet. Primarily Facebook.

It doesn't matter that the restaurant doesn't appeal to you personally, but it does matter that it appeals to a particular demographic, and doesn't become confused in who it's trying to connect with.

This is what I said and Im glad others agree.

Right now the place is trying to be too many things to too many people and even now its confusing.

I know a cafe like this and when it's busy the acoustics are a nightmare! It's so echo-y and like being in a hanger, you can't hear the person sitting opposite you. It's horrible on my ears and for that reason I won't go despite the food and service being great.

Have you checked put the sound/acoustics? I would most definitely look into this as if you are hoping to have little kids there, having it super noisy and echo-y will be a nightmare.

On a more general note, I like the design in look.

I wouldn't have a play area as such but a book case like the Kallax range from ikea (not one of the high ones) and just 1-3 toys on each shelf like shape sorted / stacking toys / a smallish fire engine. In a plan color fitting in with the decor so white or wood like the bar so it isn't in your face a put people of who are there for an aduly / drinks off

Lots of great feedback about the level of kiddie friendliness. Current plan is loads of access/space at front for buggies. Nappy changing facilities. Children's menu with colouring on the back (with crayons). High chairs for kids when requested. Fluffies and the like. But no designated kids play area. Seems most of you think that would be a bad idea, and possibly change the vibe for the adults (who spend most of the money!) which is a good point. So hopefully this is a good compromise. I was more worried to ensure we weren't alienating mothers/families due to the look and feel of the place. But it sounds like that wouldn't be the case for most.

Facebook I think will be your best bet I agree but Twitter is hipper. As is Instagram. So think about them too!

The chalk board walls with a few books sounds genius. Especially if you had a book case that opened, so at night you could shut it?

I like the interior it wouldn't put me off, nice plants on the table, white lavender/ Rosemary/ fake grass.

Newspapers and suduko for adults?
There's a cafe near me with an adult only room, that works well if you have the area. The other room has a window sill with books and a basket (that sits on the window sill) of toys.

I love the grass idea btw I know it's aimed at adults bit I think that will really appeal to kids, and maybe make the place seem a bit special.

Wriggly the kids meze sounds like a great idea. The chef is trying to ensure the kids menu options are healthy, so that fits right in.

Op, can I ask why your demographics are women aged 30-50?

Im 57, I have 5 children, and 5 grandchildren. We eat out a lot as a family and prefer places where the menu isn't made up of beige food for the children. I also eat out/drink out a lot with my girlfriends as well as eating out etc just with my girls who are young mums. We go to good restaurants and bars because at my stage of life we can. So why would you not want to include women of my age in your demographics?

We scrub up quite well you know

Are the women on the FB group even Mums? 30-50 covers the post mum period where the last thing a woman wants is to have sticky toddlers running round while she used her lap top in a cafe.

Many people , women included, work from laptops in cafes or meet people in restaurants if they are freelancers who work from home . The key thing there is a square table big enough for plate , drink, laptop.

Not all women, including mothers, are fans of twee / cosy / vintage etc.

weebirdie it was mentioned upthread that there is a trendy men's bar across the road that attracts men aged 30-50, presumably the OP's family is trying to cash in on their partners and wives!

Females can like things to look cool and industrial too :) or should we like Chintz and pictures of kittens?! I'm being cheeky because I know you don't mean that per se, but I like a place that feels grown up and has a striking look to it but doesn't make me feel like a terrible mother for having a child in there! our favourite place to take DS (11 months) is a beautifully decorated bar/cocktail bar/restaurant because they ALWAYS made us feel welcome. I went when I was pregnant and from the moment we wheeled in the pram with 4 week old DS in to have a nice lunch they were lovely, exited to see him, accomodating to our needs. That's what you need more than a load of toys that will get broken. And they have Ikea highchairs rather than complicated ones you have to strap the babies in to! This totally sways me as DDs feeds himself so the chair ones with no bar between his legs that go up to the table are annoying. Very specific gripe though

It is screaming for massive plants to soften all that concrete and aid the acoustics.

A very similar design to a new coffee shop in our area but they put the coffee machine on the counter which made conversation impossible every time the machine was used.
It was a beautiful looking cafe but it made for an uncomfortable experience.

SkodaLabia see i love all of those pictures. Bit more colour and warmth! Makes me want to start painting walls . Funny you say no kids menu, as that was my brother's original plan. Smaller portions of what's on the menu for the kids. But my mother insisted he included a kids menu (with colouring on the back). Yes i know i know we probably should stop meddling!

Thank also about the noise levels. It's all hard surfaces and will be noise as heck, nothing to absorb sound. The wood assists a little.

I am a designer. In hospitality.

Add warmth to the walls easily and economically with 'some' colour, which can be updated as time changes.

The kids floor tiles in an area are a good idea if this is a primary appeal. They can be taken up and cleaned and then also absorb kids 'bounce' and so sound.

So many more thoughts if wanted.....

As I said before, it's quite a common thing where I live in Australia to have an area for the children - one of our local coffee shops has a whole playschool type play area - but it's AT THE BACK. So if you have small children, you go through the whole shop to the back (also where the toilets are) which leaves the front of the shop free for the people without children. The noise doesn't travel much either (low ceiling, no tiles). It's a bit of a PITA when lots of people with buggies are there at the same time, but it's a local hangout for the mother's groups (and they usually drink more than one coffee, plus cake etc.)

I think it's a bad idea to have the front of the shop given over for the mothers, unless that's the ONLY demographic that your brother wants - because as has been shown, lots of people won't want to go in if they see mothers and toddlers.

I just hate the bar (whaaaaaaaaaaaaa). Ok i had to get that out. I am obviously a bit old, and not sufficiently appreciative of such achingly hip stylings. I just look at it and think it looks unfinished . I'm turning into my mother.

Another thing that's quite common in Australian restaurants, don't know about NZ, is that they have plain paper on the tables (even quite posh ones!). This is great for drawing on, if they also supply pencils/crayons (which several do) and easier than colouring children's menus, IME.