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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think maybe these school kids should have been supervised more closely?

76 replies

VivaLeBeaver · 09/07/2015 22:59

Dunno, maybe IABU but am a bit shaken up by this.

Was out walking in a forest with the dog and pass a group of approx 40 school kids out with their teachers all on mountain bikes. I'm going in the opposite direction on the forest track.

About a mile down the track one of these kids who has turned round and come back in the same direction im going in passes me going way too fast. Came round a big bend and lost it - major crash. He's in the grass opposite me and I realise he's badly hurt as he sat up and started screaming he was spraying blood out his face. Properly spraying.

There was another kid just behind him who said she would go "and find Miss". She disappears back up the hill.

I'm left for a good ten minutes with this kid who is pouring blood, drifting in and out of concisousness and totally in shock after making some fairly large puncture holes in himself and taking most of the skin off his face.

I just keep thinking if I hadn't happened to be there it would have been awful for those kids, they were Year 8. Not a busy forest either, I passed one other person on a six mile walk so total chance there was someone there.

Just seems the teacher was a long way away for what is a moderately dangerous activity......especially at the speed he was going at.

OP posts:
MaggieJoyBlunt · 10/07/2015 00:43

The teacher is going to cop it for not calling an ambulance I think, given he was in and out of consciousness and badly grazed/bleeding. When does she think this is? 1989? Smile (I'm not being snippy, I absolutely believe you.)

MaggieJoyBlunt · 10/07/2015 00:45

In fact, I'm surprised it passed a risk assessment in the first place. Which is a great shame.

Original poster
VivaLeBeaver · 10/07/2015 00:47

I remember going on an outwards bounds school trip in 1989. At a Christian retreat in the yorkshire dales. Two chain smoking teenagers had us abseiling down a proper cliff, no PGL climbing walls for us. They spent ages faffing about tying ropes round rocks at the top. I'm amazed we survived it.

OP posts:
MaggieJoyBlunt · 10/07/2015 00:56

I bet you had fun though.

WhyStannisWhy · 10/07/2015 01:08

Sounds similar to what my Y8 sister is doing this week. In fact I wonder if it was her group you encountered... Don't know if YABU or yanbu to be honest

CrohnicallyAspie · 10/07/2015 06:32

If he really was "drifting in and out of consciousness" and "pouring blood" then you should have phoned an ambulance.

merrymouse · 10/07/2015 06:45

Some children may be fine unsupervised on bikes at 13. Others will still be very much a liability, particularly in an area they don't know. Obviously I have no idea what happened here, but I don't think a teacher would be in a position to judge who was safe on a bike.

echt · 10/07/2015 06:55

I would imagine that this kind of activity would have been on a sign-up only if your child can ride bike with confidence.

merrymouse · 10/07/2015 07:00

There is a difference between riding with confidence under supervision and tearing off on your own.

FuckitFay · 10/07/2015 07:04

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FuckitFay · 10/07/2015 07:05

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ShowMeTheWonder · 10/07/2015 07:11

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TheHouseOnBellSt · 10/07/2015 07:13

We cycle a lot and to be honest I'd expect year 8s to be sensible....he was silly.

IKnowIAmButWhatAreYou · 10/07/2015 07:41

I'm surprised it passed a risk assessment in the first place.

Really?

We had groups of 14 year old children cycling on country roads for 2 days earlier on in the year for their DofE.

An adult would meet them at occasional checkpoints, but the whole point of their expedition was that it was unsupervised.

From 12 & up kids cycle to school, in my eyes that's more dangerous.

echt · 10/07/2015 07:53

There is a difference between riding with confidence under supervision and tearing off on your own.

Yes, that's why I said it would be at the sign-up stage. What happens after that can be an entirely different thing.

I remember years ago a boy's parents successfully suing a school because their 17 year-old son disobeyed the direct instructions of his teachers and went skiing on a dangerous part of the ski slopes. Apparently they should have stopped him, and failed in their duty by not doing so.Shock

merrymouse · 10/07/2015 07:59

Depends on the children involved and the way the outing was organised.

Some 13 and 14 year olds would not be mature enough to do DofE. Children taking part in a DofE expedition aren't just dumped in a random place - they are expected to have taken responsibility for planning and will have a map and will have thought through what to do if somebody needs first aid.

A 13 year old taking part in cycling on an activity day may be pretty clueless when left to their own devices.

LazyLouLou · 10/07/2015 08:01

FoD, OP???

In many places the bikes are PedalaBikeAway or similar. Forest tracks are well assessed and staff ratios are compulsory. So if there were 40 kids then there would have been 4 teachers, maybe a cycle leader or 2, you just didn't see them.

The kid who got hurt had an accident. And they happen. From your description he was having a bit of a wander and got away from the main pack... but wasn't totally disconnected, after all the girl who was with him knew where the 'Miss' was and would have gone and got her even if you were not there.

But I too am a bit surprised that you didn't call an ambulance. You knew he was in and out of consciousness and in an isolated spot. Did you insist the teacher did so? Did she know he had possibly suffered concussion? He wouldn't have... Had that been me I wouldn't have waited, I would have taken control and done what thought best. But then I have led a horde of 16 - 19 year olds on similar trips....

But no, YANBU, just shocked.

PfftTheMagicDraco · 10/07/2015 08:04

A first aid kit? When he'd apparently scraped Most of the skin off his face and spurting blood, in and out of consciousness?
Why didn't you call an ambulance?

MammaTJ · 10/07/2015 08:22

So, was he 'drifting in and out of consciousness' or was he 'walking wounded'? He cannot have been both.

Were you maybe exaggerating just a tad?

Original poster
VivaLeBeaver · 10/07/2015 08:58

Don't think I'm exaggerating at all Hmm

I said in my 4th post that I think the "drifting in and out of consciousness" thing may have been due to fainting/shock. Dunno, I'm not a Dr. All I know is he kept closing his eyes and been unresponsive to questions but if I gave him a bit of a shake he'd open his eyes and talk. But when you're on your own with someone like that it's scary.

The main blood pouring was out his nose which I stopped with pressure. He had deep gashes on his philtrum and his nose which were bleeding quite a bit and a lot of blood in his mouth from where exactly im not sure. Maybe a combination of loose teeth and his brace having bashed his gums. The gash on his philtrum was so deep I thought he'd gone right through it at first. The gash on his nose was also deep, I could see white at the base of the cut. Not sure if that was bone or gristle, it was a big wide v shape split.

I didn't initially realise he'd got those two bad cuts as there was so much blood coming out his nose I thought it was all from there. Nose bleeds bleed a lot but aren't overly concerning I guess as most of the time you can stop the blood, so I didn't think he needed an ambulance for a nose bleed. Maybe I should have called an ambulance when he was being a bit unresponsive but just when Id think that he'd start talking again and I kept thinking that "Miss" would be there any minute and make that decision. I had no idea if she was 30 seconds away or ten minutes. I knew she wasn't hours away as I knew I'd passed them approx a mile away. By the time Miss did get there he wasn't as woozy as I guess the shock was passing so was more coherent and less worrying from a conscious/fainting point of view.

I'm glad some of you seem to be enjoying trying to pick my story apart so much. Ask yourself, are you been kind, are you been helpful? What's the point of quizzing me about whether or not I called an ambulance and accusing me of exaggerating? I didn't start a threat titled AIBU to not call an ambulance? Would you like your kids to act in the way you're acting?

OP posts:
MaggieJoyBlunt · 10/07/2015 10:15

From 12 & up kids cycle to school, in my eyes that's more dangerous.

Of course, but it's not on the school's watch.

My DC's schools have proved laughably risk averse over the years. DofE are VIth form only and my DC have no experience of that (yet). It's a good point. I wonder if they loosen up for that scheme.

MammaTJ · 10/07/2015 10:46

Yes, I would be very proud of my DD for questioning whether and ambulance should have been called immediately if someone was 'drifting in and out of consciousness', calling an ambulance would have been the correct thing to do under those circumstances.

She is 9 and actually knows that.

msgrinch · 10/07/2015 10:51

You should have called an ambulance then and there not waited! If he was passing out and spraying blood! Yabu as kids cycle to and from school daily without supervision, they cycle to the park etc to. Accidents happen.

Passmethecrisps · 10/07/2015 10:55

It sounds deeply unpleasant and I imagine you got quite a shock as well as the kids.

I have taken groups to developing countries on expedition and our ratio is 1:6 if I remember correctly. We went slightly over staffed I think.

The reality is that taking a group of 13 yos out will be fraught with these sorts of issues. No amount of planning prepares for kids just being, well, kids. Kids who are perfectly sensible and mature become daft when out and about. Genuinely I have had to remind 16yos how to cross a road because they absolve responsibility to the teacher if that makes sense.

It might be nice to contact the school to enquire how the boy is. If you have any concerns you can raise them then

Passmethecrisps · 10/07/2015 10:56

I missed a bit out ^

With roughly 40 kids I would have expected 4 staff. Sometimes the ratio is 1:12 so maybe there were 3. Ideally they should have been highly visible so in high vis jackets preferably