if the 12bn welfare cuts were released pre-election the result would have been different?

[Toffeelatteplease]

I spoiled my ballot. As a lone parent to two "not working" as caring for a son with special needs, I was pretty sure we would be hit hard by a conservative government.

As it happens no change. except it probably will be harder to get DS the therapy and help and support at school because sadly I think all his front line care providers will be amongst the worse hit.

However I can think of a few very vocal conservative voters who I think are probably hit quite hard. I found the why should we support those who can't support themselves rhetoric very difficult and I "lost" a few friends in the year run up to the election.

AIBU to wonder whether the divide and conquer rhetoric led a lot of people to think that the cuts wouldn't hit them when they were going to, and had they known to wonder whether the election result might have been different

Heaven forbid a low income SAHM has to get a job. Honestly, some people need a reality check. Why on earth should taxpayers who might love to be an SAHM themselves go to work to pay tax to allow others not to work. It's getting too annoying now.

Possibly. There are certainly some people who voted Tory who didn't realise that just because they work, and the benefits they claim aren't called benefits, didn't mean they'd somehow be protected from welfare cuts. There are also a lot of people who'll lose money who for whatever reason didn't vote, and might've voted Labour had they known. But there's no way of knowing whether it would've been enough to make a difference. Tories don't have much of a majority, so not many seats would've needed to change hands. OTOH, there are always people who vote (or abstain) against their own economic interests.

"Heaven forbid a low income SAHM has to get a job."

That's not the only people who will be affected, it will also affect working lone parents and households where both parents work.

What are they supposed to do?

www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4486727.ece

Brown and labour new that introducing tax credits was wrong and would backfire in the long run, I said this on the thread a couple of weeks ago.

What are they supposed to do? Get on with managing on less like countless people have had to do before them. I'm talking about better off people getting tax credits. I don't think it's been done in a fair way. Tax credits should have been stopped completely for better paid people. And not just a cut for everyone. People are getting tax credits who earn up to £65K per year. If they claim childcare. It's ludicrous.

The comments below are taken from an excellent poster on housepricecrash :

Its interesting, but back in around 2005 i was speaking to a couple of Labour MPs who were attending a jolly with Blair in Sedgefield.I told them where tax credits would end up and what a disaster they would be.I urged them to listen to Frank Field and stop Brown.They laughed and said they were simply increasing take home pay "a little".I explained longer term it would lead to business paying the minimum possible and people working the minimum possible.They said that wasnt how it would work.I told them people would also stop pushing for pay increases.They couldnt understand why.Gordon told them it was a negative tax system.

I told them at some point tax credits would become so expensive that masses of Labour voters who worked full time and didnt get them would vote Tory.That the then Tory government would slash tax credits,but wages would still be at much lower levels,and workers at much lower skills because of them.That they were trapping their own voters into certain long term poverty by giving them free money now.

It has come to pass.The tax credit system in four years will probably be close to where it needs to be.Possible a few more changes will be needed,or a good few more years with freezes or CPI increases while wages increase faster.

The left should of stopped Brown and they need to accept if they dont engage now and accept these changes are needed,the change might go beyond where it needs to be and the safety net removed.

The people next year trapped in low paid jobs who will say how terrible it is will blame Osborne.The blame however lies with a Labour Party that allowed Brown to turn the middle class and the working blue collar working class against the welfare state.

A word of advice for them.Put Frank Field as shadow DWP.Quickly.

No it wouldn't. Many many people are appalled at the creep of the welfare state.

It would have made no difference because there was no other party capable of forming a government. Labour went into the election with no leadership, the Lib Dems had only one candidate with integrity and a backbone, Ukip only had one Cheshire Cat, and the tartan army's fight stopped at Hadrian's Wall. It was a one party race.

Besides, if you think the direction the economy is going, is controlled by the government of the day, or the budget, you are naive. You can put any government in place, and they face the same two choices. Bury your head in the sand and pretend the economy isn't collapsing under the weight of the welfare system, or be honest and start cutting. The Tories chose the latter. I am guessing many would prefer a Greek tragedy instead. Preferably foisted upon their children, because up that is who has to pay for what you choose to have your government spend today.

No it wouldn't. Many many people are appalled at the creep of the welfare state. A breath of fresh air, as many of the threads are full of those asking for more free money. Everyone will watch the greed that brought down Greece and left their pensioners in tears and their truly vulnerable penniless, and still claim they have the right to a free ride through life, not bothering to consider that that is exactly them attitude to government handouts that brought Greece to its knees.

They were always going to shaft lone parents. This was signposted months ago.

I don't know why people are surprised.

I'll be honest, I'm worse off by nearly £1500 a year after the budget, but I think they've done the right thing for the country as a whole.

The welfare budget was spiralling out of control and it needed to be reined in. The rise of the NMW is a good thing it will see pay fluctuate through most companies meaning higher earnings for most.

I think sometimes you have to take a hit to your own pocket and realise it's actually better to be worse off by £20 quid a week than Greece

but that's just my opinion .

I think the person is right that said they thought the feckless would get punished. Maybe not totally representative, but in their FB page it is post after post bashing scroungers' and migrants. Their answer to everything is work more hours or shut your legs.

A few posters have said they regret voting Tory as they are loosing about 2000 and they get no sympathy. People want to punish. They don't realise many of these people are working full time. These changes affect dual ft working families as much as those with a SAHM.

The Torys I am friends with spout about people now having to get jobs, people can't buy big TVs now etc. That's the sort of people who voted. People who want to punish.

Saying that, I know a couple of decent Tories who genuinely believed they were better for the economy etc. But now they are disgusted that low paid WORKERS are affected and lone parents. Anyone celebrating this is vile. My friend is a line parents works full time and will lose 1800. Very low pay. Fucking sick.

I think the person is right that said they thought the feckless would get punished.

Precisely. Unless you are in a position where you genuinely receive no benefits whatsoever, you're a benefit claimant. Trying to distinguish between "good benefits" and "bad benefits" is a variation on the whole deserving and undeserving poor thing.

I find it outrageous that people bang on about people having "too many children" when the topic at hand is tax credits or out of work benefits, but don't have any trouble in receiving child benefit; conversely, people on tax credits hardly ran into the streets to protest the tapering of child benefit. They're all non-contributory benefits.

I don't know why people are surprised.
Maybe because they generally couldn't give a F about the economy until it bites them personally, and they have no interest in protecting themselves in advance. Or maybe it's just that Brits always need to have so,etching to complain about. It's part of the British psyche.

People do know what is going to happen in the future, but they are in denial because denial is a safer place to be, and it means not confronting reality or taking responsibility for their own protection.

I didn't get much sympathy on here when I lost my CB in 2013. In fact I remember quite the opposite, such as people saying "good". I also said on here many times that it was the thin end of the wedge and that everyone else would get hit too. People were just glad it wasn't them of course, but now it is, as I predicted. They won't stop now, they're on a roll.

They won't stop now, they're on a roll.
They can't stop. It is a mathematical certainty. 'They' could be any party, but the complainers will see this as a political issue. Not one of mathematics. May on benefits would rather be paid well right up until their children are destitute on the streets, and blame those nasty Germans, than accept responsibility for their own lives. Welfare cannot be paid to everyone for ever in ever increasing amounts. This country must stop spending more than it brings in in taxes. We have less than 2% of the worlds welfare recipients, but we pay them more than 7% of the worlds welfare payments. We have the richest 'poor people' on the planet. People travel half way across the globe for the changpce to be a poor person in the UK, and yet half our 'poor people' won't walk to a job interview without complaining that they don't have the bus fare. Yep. They'll complain and pretend they didn't expect to be worse off next year, two or three parliaments down the line, they'll vote in An opposition to bankrupt the country again. Has there ever been a Labour government that hasn't left office having bankrupted the nation?

I'm not a fan of labour either Ellie and I agree with the post from Waterwitch above from an HPC poster. Gordon Brown should never have implemented tax credits. It was always going to be abolished eventually. I just don't like the way this government and the coalition removed things. It does seem unfair and devisive, e.g. CB removal from a single income family on less than a dual income family. Also, keeping bus passes and winter fuel, etc for rich pensioners. If we were really all in this together, everyone would lose something perhaps an equivalent % of income.

We are not all in this together. Socialism has failed. The rich understand this and have walked away en mass. Meanwhile it remains a pet theoretic exercise among the middle classes, and will continue to live there so long as it does not actually put the recipients in their backyard, or dramatically lower their own standard of living, and of course the empoverishment among us have a vested interest in believing socialism can work. It is their utopia, as they have never learned to live without the quick financial fix.

The problem is the middle classes will eventually be fleeced, and will discover that a 90% mortgage on a £350K house is far less secure than a council house rent when the BoE base rate reaches 5%, and a brace of Nissan Jukes has no more worth than a £1K runaround. The rich will protect themselves. They did not become that way without learning how the game is played. And the poor have far less distance to fall. So unless the middle classes shed their attachment to nimby socialism, it will be used by both the parties to strip their wealth from them.

I could be wrong, but it looks a lot like the middle is being squeezes out of all western societies, and I probably won't be hanging around in the country long enough to see them wake up.

The Tory voters I know expected cuts. That's why they voted Tory. They're not all sad and depressed because they've suddenly lost a grand a year they can actually manage without, they know it's for the good of the country because people like them don't need the benefits. Struggling people do, trying to get back on their feet. The truly disabled, etc. all the crowing on here that "bet they're sorry now!" is just really mean spirited and petty. I guess those who have Tory friends who are "surprised" a) don't have bright friends who would've foreseen this and b) don't have nice friends who were delighted when the cuts to the poor where made. I suggest you get new friends if it's bothering you so much what they think and say.

They can't stop. It is a mathematical certainty. 'They' could be any party, but the complainers will see this as a political issue. Not one of mathematics. May on benefits would rather be paid well right up until their children are destitute on the streets, and blame those nasty Germans, than accept responsibility for their own lives. Welfare cannot be paid to everyone for ever in ever increasing amounts. This country must stop spending more than it brings in in taxes. We have less than 2% of the worlds welfare recipients, but we pay them more than 7% of the worlds welfare payments. We have the richest 'poor people' on the planet. People travel half way across the globe for the changpce to be a poor person in the UK, and yet half our 'poor people' won't walk to a job interview without complaining that they don't have the bus fare. Yep. They'll complain and pretend they didn't expect to be worse off next year, two or three parliaments down the line, they'll vote in An opposition to bankrupt the country again. Has there ever been a Labour government that hasn't left office having bankrupted the nation?

^This

And to all those bitching about the rich this, the rich that - if you had money, a good job etc that you'd worked hard for, would you honestly have voted for a government that wanted to give even more of your money away to people who don't need it? (Those in higher incomes who can claim tcs etc).

Perhaps if all the idiots who spoiled their papers had actually voted it might have made a difference. Bet you all feel stupid now lol

I voted Tory knowing full well that they'd be making cuts. They didn't hide it.

No idea how much it affects us TBH, will find out when (if) we have less left at the end of the month.

It'll teach people to get off their arses and vote though won't it?

As you spoiled your ballot OP you have absolutely no right to moan in my book!

Tax credits won votes. Bone idle people who realised they could "earn" money by having kids and staying at home did just that. What they failed to do was plan ahead in case their "income" was removed. I have absolutely zero sympathy for those who sat back, claimed every penny they could but had no plan B in place should the system change. Living on benefits should mean existing, as in you can get by but luxuries such as cars, flash TVs games consoles , money for the pub , booze or cigarettes are not included. Wanting to work and provide is a great trait. Expecting to be paid to be unemployed is not. There are jobs out there, they might just not be the ones you fancy. This budget and government might not get us back in the black but at the very least they have acknowledged that as a nation we will not tolerate it being acceptable to pop out babies with zero thought for how they will be fed and expect the state to pay for them. Have as many children as you like but make sure you know how you intend to pay for their upbringing.

I've read a few of these threads over the past couple of days and I have noticed that most people either just benefit or are going to be hit hard. I'm just wondering if there are any families on here in my boat...we are in the 'forgotten' category- never qualified for social housing so pay full price rent, not high earners but earned literally a few £'s too much between us to qualify for any kind of tax credits, both work FT and pay horrendous amounts in childcare. We have one ds and have stopped there as we couldn't afford another lot of childcare amongst other things

I did the online calculator and the difference was £0. I guess that means I don't have the right to an opinion but I think what they have done is ok.