to ask how you will be affected by the budget announcements?

[manicinsomniac]

Sorry if there's another thread about this, I can only see lots of speculative ones.

Now that it's announced ... I admit I'm struggling to get my head around it. I don't think it's as bad as I thought? I don't think it can be that good though? I don't think there's a single thing in it that affects me. I'm not sure about any of that though because I find it all quite confusing!

So, ordinary people from ordinary families/households - how are you going to be affected, if at all?

That's quite insulting. Your combined income is vastly higher than many working parents.

Its ridiculous to say you can't afford children on a joint income of £65k. You personally have very high outgoings but to say "shame some people need this pointing out to them" as though its clearly obvious to everyone that an income of £65k is too low for children is just ridiculous.

If angelos is buying in London or the SE, and they need both incomes for the mortgage, then it's entirely possible they have decided they cannot afford children because they cannot exist on one income. I don't see why that's insulting?

Because being a home-owner isn't a necessity. It's a luxury.

Its not that they personally can't afford a child though, its the implication that others are foolish for not realising this, as if nobody on £65k could afford children

A quick look at a mortgage calculator shows you can borrow about £260k with that income. Enough for a flat in London maybe, but not if you lose one income.

I've just looked up the house we sold in London 23yrs ago. 4 bed terrace in N London. It went for £1.3m in Jan. we sold it for £179k. We certainly wouldn't have been able to have children and live in London now. I don't know how my DC will be able to afford to have a house and children if they stay in the South East.

by not being able to afford I mean with zero support from other people. eg. no child support or tax credits. this is what is/has pissed people off. have/do what you can afford without any taxpayer having to make up the difference.

No way could we afford children. Not mucking about. just not much money left after mortgage & bills. So lose the mortgage and/or bills and/or increase your income. Simples.

£1.4k worse off.

No wonder they're known as the cunt-servatives around our way.

We have two children on £20K a year and we don't claim benefits. If someone thinks they cannot do the same on £65K a year, it is because of greed and pride, as opposed to any basis in reality.

Maybe for some people having children would be a luxury though lougle? I don't think I would have had my DC if I'd had to rely on any benefits or credits - it would not have felt safe, it just was not something I could have done - but I'm a different generation to many of you, I'm 60 now and it was possible for us to have DC without relying on the state - but I was 35 before I had my first and had established a career as had my DH.

Not everyone wants to have children. Very sensible given how fucked up the planet is.

angelos02 - by not being able to afford I mean with zero support from other people. eg. no child support or tax credits. this is what is/has pissed people off. have/do what you can afford without any taxpayer having to make up the difference

Oh my gosh! angelos02 Just because you earn a high wage that does not mean that you are not, on balance, taking anything from society - its infrastructure and its expertise have been built up over time on the collective backs of many millions of poor who have never received a fraction of the recognition that they deserve.

You have enjoyed: an education, clean water, a warm home, decent transport, medical treatment etc etc. You have bought into an economy that will only function in to your old age and retirement with the assistance of workers (ie the adults of the children that many on wages far less than yours have had and raised).

If you are being realistic in your assertion that 65k is an insufficient income for raising children, then the whole economy is unsustainable. But I disagree that in taking this decision you are somehow altruistically self-sufficient - if you did the sums (granted, an impossible calculation) I bet you would find that you benefit from a complex, diversified social infrastructure, the real cost of which could never be met through the taxes you have paid on 65k pa!

That said, BettyCatKitten - I agree with your sentiments - although I think that humanity is more fucked than the planet - that will survive (well at least until our sun becomes a red giant!).

You see I dont think that not having to privately rent is a luxury. Private renting with young children isnt ideal, landlord can give you 1/ 2 months notice you have to move often well away from dc school. Rents can go up overnight making it a very unpredictable existence. 65k isn't that much to get a mortgage, particularly if the income is even so one of you dropping down/ taking mat leave will effectively halve your income.

Those who have less income and are in social housing are in a better position imo.

You'll all survive. Suck it up. Yes we'll get less free money. We were bloody fortunate to have a Government that gives it to us in the first place. Sick of hearing people complaining, bunch of ungrateful, spoiled citizens.

Blimey, Youhateeveryonesomuch.

Wow George osborne in disguise I think there "ihatemyself"....!

I can see why you hate yourself... You're a bit of a twat!

It makes no sense to me. We earn 44000 p/a don't need or get any tax credits etc, but due to the tax change are 400 a year better off? Yet family on lower income are worse off? Seems wrong. As I said, I don't get it

At least you know enough to hate yourself.

good post ragetty.

The whole "bringing up children without state support" argument is simply nonsense.

None of us brings up children without the help of the state. I earn a good salary and have never been in receipt of means-tested benefits. However the idea that my children have grown up with no state support is plainly nonsense. They were born in a hospital funded by the state. They receive a state-funded education. The eldest travels to school on state-subsidised buses on state-funded roads.

Just how small do the "without state support" posters want the state to be?

I wonder if the people who claim council housing is subsidised would also claim their lives, life choices, goods and services are subsidised by people who, for example, are often paid below a living wage and live in council housing.

I'll be £0 better off!

Sorry if this seems a lone voice in here but as a single home owner who works and only recently got a big pay rise due to changing jobs it does irk me somewhat that my taxes support others. What did people do before tax credits etc?

On another topic my friend has worked as occupational health worker (assesses clients for what they need for their homes if disabled etc) she commented yesterday she had been to a house which was beautifully decorated, brand new flat screen TV etc, nothing wanted for there yet they claimed benefits (disability obviously) I did comment as they're in their 50s they obviously save for what they think is important and really in their situation a lovely house kitted out well is a priority. But it irked her it was paid for by the taxpayer.

Expecting to get flamed here but my friend can't afford to buy a flat though has 30K in deposit and I'm lucky I bought a few years back when just about affordable.