To think poor students will still be able to go to uni and now it will be fairer on ALL students !

[bereal7]

I've read a few ridiculous comments from posters complaining that their children won't be able to afford university. This is bullocks ; the loans will still be there and even higher now. On top of this, they don't have to be repaid until you are earning more than £21k. Therefore, there is no reason why poorer students can't afford university.

If anything, this is now a fair system. It was not right that some students could get such high grants and loans that they don't have to work whilst other only got the bare minimum and have to work - sacrificing their studies - just because their parents earnt more. Those who didn't have to work would be more likely to pass and have higher paying jobs but not have to pay back as much. It was a ridiculous and unfair system which penalised people whose parents were earning more on paper and I welcome this change. Everyone who wants to , and gets the grades, can go to uni but will have to pay back the loans the same as everyone else once they graduate. Aibu to think poorer students will still be able to go university?

So annoyed by the comments and hysteria so I'm sure there's a few typos in there - apologies

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

I hope it will change the way university is viewed. I.e. That people will consider whether they can afford it and then less people go and then hopefully have a knock on effect that university is no longer seen as so essential. Of course for many careers it is and I do see that you learn more than just what you study.

Educated citizens are of benefit to society. I agree university is not for everybody but attending university should be based on ability to learn, NOT ability to pay.

[Dawndonnaagain]

I'm also not entirely clear why people can't have degrees in English Literature for their inner life and train as plumbers.
Because those studying literature make contributions to society in other ways, much to the disgust of those in government. It is the arts students that comment on society, criticise it, change it.
Says it all, really.

[StoneCuttersStreet]

That is a fair point Dawn

[TheBreeze]

I agree OP, why should your parents income decide whether you get a grant or not, these 'children' will be 21-22 when they leave university and all should be equal with student loans. Why should some not have to pay it back because their parents didn't earn much, or as is often the case they live with the divorced poorer parent.

[Dawndonnaagain]

Why should some not have to pay it back because their parents didn't earn much, or as is often the case they live with the divorced poorer parent.
Or if they are disabled...

[Gemauve]

Because those studying literature make contributions to society in other ways,

Indeed. But they could do a bit of plumbing on the side too if they fancy it. It's not a zero-sum game.

[Hillingdon]

I don't need a new career thank you! I am ok where I am. What does annoy me are people who feel entitled to have as many children as they want, to feel entitled when one partnership breaks down to have another child, to not choose a career that pays well because they dont want to do the hours or cannot be bothered to think outside the box. Who expect others to pay for their choices and moan when someone actually asks them to take personal responsibility for the decisions they make...

[Dawndonnaagain]

I think you'll find 'if they fancy it' is the crucial point there. I suspect it would be unlikely. My son is doing literature, he will probably end up lecturing as academia is a relatively safe space for someone with a disability. He couldn't actually be a plumber if he tried. His disability would preclude it.

[mygrandchildrenrock]

Poorer families have less financial resoures to pull on to help their student children/teenagers/young adults. It would be a brave young adult prepared to take on a huge debt at a young age.
I think it is immoral of the Government to penalise students from poor backgrounds.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine makes a very good point.

[Dawndonnaagain]

Oh, Hillingdon ffs. Do look into things will you. There are very few people like this and most don't do it deliberately. to not choose a career that pays well As for this nonsense, I despair, I really do.

[whois]

It's an absolute mess. An educated society is of benefit to everyone, and this is not the way to an educated society.

Labour totally fucked it up with wanting 50% of people to go to uni, and the huge rise in joke degree courses and universities.

No everyone should go, and not all professions need a degree.

But higher education should be heavily subsidised and available to all who are academically able for many subjects.

I really can't see people thinking a uni education is a good idea 'just' to be come a nurse, teacher, social worker etc when the pay is comparatively low eg to finance jobs. And that would be a real shame depriving valuable professions of smart people.

[ollieplimsoles]

Not working in your field of study at the end of uni is fine. But I'm just saying out of 30 students only one works in the field we were studying, the rest just did the degree because it was fun. They are all struggling in min wage jobs now, a few are training to teach the subject at high schools and struggling to fund that.

I think its immoral to push a young person into a university education without explaining that they need to think carefully about such a massive commitment.

[ollieplimsoles]

Dawndonnaagain

Your DS sounds like he is doing great at uni and will get to work in a career he enjoys at the end of it. His 1st grades reflect he is dedicated and enjoying the course. You must be proud.

I'm talking about the students that go to uni because its the 'done thing' chose a subject they didn't mind at school, spend three years drinking and scraping by, then wonder why they struggle to find good work. Some of these students would be better waiting before committing to uni

[MoustacheofRonSwanson]

It's just more money that won't get paid back, just as existing student loans aren't being paid back. So it will end up costing the taxpayer more and the student more.

www.theguardian.com/education/2014/mar/21/student-loans-unpaid-debt-problem-universities-adrian-bailey

[TheOriginalSteamingNit]

No one ever seems to add up the fact that, if you want more people to do degrees, that's fine, but it doesn't mean that a commensurate amount of well paid jobs will appear for them to do afterwards. So flogging us the idea that it's fair to make them pay since they'll obviously be earning plenty because they did degrees just doesn't make sense.

I despair at the arguments above that it's so much fairer not to help people who er, need more help, because that's not fair on the people who don't need help and should be allowed the same help as the people who ... Need it

[morethanpotatoprints]

When so many organisations are avoiding tax and being allowed to, i can't agree with any of these cuts I'm afraid.
Not all courses allow students to work, many actually include a none paid work placement, how can people work on top off this.
yes, some do allow some pt work but surely this should be for pocket money, books, a bit of entertainment not to have to fund themselves.

[Dawndonnaagain]

Ollie as a (retired) lecturer, I must admit, the mature students were, in general, far more dedicated.
Personally I'm of the opinion that those who are able should go to work from 18 -21, then go to uni. A uni that provides a free education for those who are able to cope with it. Uni isn't for everyone, I agree with that and have always felt that the idea of getting everyone into uni was a ridiculous option. I didn't like, when younger the rather elitist seperation between those who had and hadn't been, but I do feel that there must be a better way of doing it.
And thank you, I'm very proud of him and will be of both dds when they go next year. I should add, I'm equally proud of ds1, a bank manager who didn't go to uni. Just felt it wasn't for him.

[Headofthehive55]

Of course Dawn you would need a larger teaching workforce. The system would need to be set up so you would pay obviously larger fees each year. But if you could reduce the amount of time at uni you do save on living costs. It's one way of reducing the cost. Efficiency gains if you like.

Eventually I guess students will work out if it's something they want to do and if it's worth their while. They will see their friends relations do a degree etc and work out if it's a good thing!

[DelphiniumBlue]

I think part of the problem is that the loans are not enough to live on, so unless a student has a family who can sub them, they cannot manage without a job as well as studying. For some courses, this is not practicable, and there are not enough jobs for all the students who want them.

[ollieplimsoles]

Dawn

Thats great, uni is a choice and should be thought about carefully, glad your DS1 made the right decision for him.

[Dawndonnaagain]

Head I can't really see that as being practicable, and again, it leaves the poorer student with fewer options.

[Headofthehive55]

It depends on where the course is I think, some towns are much more expensive than others! Some students are much better at money management than others.

[GoStraightGoStraight]

YANBU.

[PunkHedgehog]

Did all those who are saying 'get a job as well' do arts courses? I knew a history undergrad who had only 3 hours of lectures a week so would probably have had plenty of time for paid work; but for STEM subjects (arguably the ones of most economic benefit to society) the workload is a lot heavier.

For example, in my STEM subject we had 38 taught hours per week, 10 of which were labs. The guidance for lab work was that you should spend as long writing it up as you spent doing it, so that's 48 hours. Then two short essays or workbooks each week and 1 long essay per term for each module (about 6 modules per term), so on top of your weekly 48 hours you need time to research and write about 54,000 words per term (that's equivalent to 2 Booker prize winning novels a year). Plus the set reading for each course, and if you want a good grade you need to go beyond the set reading (incidentally textbooks are £60-90 each and you can't buy second hand because the information goes out of date too quickly).

For medicine the workload is higher still. For engineering and the later stages of a medical course there are likely to be work placements as well...