To think poor students will still be able to go to uni and now it will be fairer on ALL students !

[bereal7]

I've read a few ridiculous comments from posters complaining that their children won't be able to afford university. This is bullocks ; the loans will still be there and even higher now. On top of this, they don't have to be repaid until you are earning more than £21k. Therefore, there is no reason why poorer students can't afford university.

If anything, this is now a fair system. It was not right that some students could get such high grants and loans that they don't have to work whilst other only got the bare minimum and have to work - sacrificing their studies - just because their parents earnt more. Those who didn't have to work would be more likely to pass and have higher paying jobs but not have to pay back as much. It was a ridiculous and unfair system which penalised people whose parents were earning more on paper and I welcome this change. Everyone who wants to , and gets the grades, can go to uni but will have to pay back the loans the same as everyone else once they graduate. Aibu to think poorer students will still be able to go university?

So annoyed by the comments and hysteria so I'm sure there's a few typos in there - apologies

[mmollytoots]

and to be honest myself and a lot of people do not care about paying it back because I don't earn high enough and so I'll prob never pay the det back before I die.

They don't contact you to pay it back and it doesn't appear on credit files so I never think twice about it

[Shesparkles]

olliplimsoles I couldn't agree more! University is not the be all and end all. My dad has just left school (Scotland) and is almost 18. She doesn't want to go to University as she has no idea what she wants to do, although she does have the require grades. She has gone out and got herself a job...we are supportive of this, but we will be equally supportive if she decides on a path which requires a degree, at a later date.

Too many people are seeing university at the end and not the means. I saw a friend who has a ds the same age as mine, had the usual conversation about the girls' plans, and on asking what gee de was going to be doing got the answer "she's going to whatever university to study geography". On asking her what she hoped to do with said geography degree, I got a blank look and no response, amd therein lies the problem. There aren't enough "graduate level" jobs for all the graduates and there never will be!

[GeorgeYeatsAutomaticWriter]

But they were still taking on £27000 of debt, minimum.

Yes, and now they are going to be doubling that. I know you work in Higher Ed - you don't have a problem with that?

[WorktoLive]

I come from a reasonably low income family and have never had one penny off my parents since I left home at 18. I remain the only member of the family to go to university.

I did my degree while working 4 days a week and studying one very long day per week. It took 5 years instead of 3 and I got a first. I genuinely think there should be more opportunities to go to university part time and be supported by an employer in a 'career' job. But then you lose the opportunity for a 3 year piss up.

The 'full time' students on the same course were not in classes for much more than we were. Most students could easily work 10 or 20 hours a week.

The DD in a wheelchair could work in a call centre, or on reception in a restaurant or in an office.

[mmollytoots]

I will also add that me and dp could not get jobs with our degree so if my dd does not want to go-to university then she will be no better off

[Gemauve]

Yes, and now they are going to be doubling that. I know you work in Higher Ed - you don't have a problem with that?

Not particularly, no. The alternative is the return to university take up at levels of the 1980s. But that argument has been thrashed out endlessly, and no-one is going to convince anyone.

[QuiteLikely5]

HSMM

If she requires additional support there is a fund at uni she can access.

a lack of free grant does not mean people with disabilities can't go to university.

[bereal7]

But my point is this : the money they will receive has increased so their circumstances whilst at uni will also improve. It just means that after graduating and hopefully securing a job paying more than £21k (which they more likely will because they don't have to work as much as they are eligible for higher loans up to £8k), they have to pay the money back as it's no longer free

Why was it acceptable for others to struggle through on basic loans but suddenly now there's an uproar because poorer students will also have to pay back the loans. They'll even be better off than they were before. With a £8k loan (plus grant from uni) you really don't even have to work.

Genuinely confused.

[bereal7]

George that's not true. Those who earn more actually pay back more than those who will be earning less. I'll try find a link for you.

[Dawndonnaagain]

But they were still taking on £27000 of debt, minimum.
DS went thinking he could manage with grants and would be able to pay this back on a lecturers salary.
DD is frantically working things out as she wants to go to uni next year.
Education is not a luxury, it really is a right. That includes Higher Education. The point of making higher education more difficult and more expensive to access is that you can control the population. University is where you get to question things, philosophy, literature, radical theory, limit these by increasing costs and you have teachers, doctors and scientists, people who don't question the morals of a society because they don't have time to discuss ethics. In the meantime, let's charge those wishing to teach our children, treat our sick? In what way is that morally acceptable?

[WorktoLive]

Also agree that university is not for everyone, and not everyone needs to go to university to get a good job.

Take 2 18 YOs:

Person 1 goes to university to get a degree with no real idea what career they want.

Person 2 starts a plumbing, mechanicing apprenticeship or similar at age 18. Perhaps does some part time study paid for by employer.

Fast forward to age 21:

Person 1 graduates with a degree and shedloads of debt. Still no real idea of what they want to do with it, or might get a graduate job earning not a huge amount over minimum wage (£15-20k)

Person 2 is qualified and experienced in their chosen field and is earning £20-25k with no debts. Could move into a management role, or start own business.

Person 1 hasn't really gained anything from going to university.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

There is solution to the 'too many people with degrees' problem. Do what we do here in Canada and make every crappy job need a Masters or similar. Then you can saddle people with much more debt and keep them studying for longer. And have the original degree take four years, not three, more debt! You can make education into a purely money-making scheme if you try hard.

[ollieplimsoles]

Shesparkles

Absolutely! Your DD is doing the right thing, I only left college 7 years ago so haven't been out of uni long, however it feels like you are on a conveyor belt towards uni and you can't get off!

A friend of mine who didnt get great grades left college same time as us and got a job, hes only just going to uni now but has had so much more time think about what he actually wants to do- now the debt is worth it to him because he knows its his passion and he is fully equipped to get work at the end of it! Going to uni is not a joke, or a status symbol- its time to grow up and really think about your future, and I'm sorry but lots of 17/18 year olds are just not ready for those decisions.

Out of 30 students in my class at uni, only one works in the field we were actually studying for- one.

[bereal7]

www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-loans-tuition-fees-changes#multiThree Towards the end of the page you will see that those who earn more pay back more, with those earning between £30k-£50k being hardest hit.

[Dawndonnaagain]

The DD in a wheelchair could work in a call centre, or on reception in a restaurant or in an office.
She has narcolepsy.
Just because you managed doesn't mean everyone can or should.

[ollieplimsoles]

WorktoLive Your scenarios are spot on and reflect many members of my friendship group.

those 'thick' lads everyone looked down on (including the teachers) because they didn't get into uni or familes couldn't support them taking on all that debt- doing better than all of us now.

[MaggieJoyBlunt]

They do not take student loans into account when assessing mortgage affordability

They do now.

[Gemauve]

They do now.

They take the repayments into account, which will be precisely the same: 9% of >£21000.

[Bakeoffcake]

I'm sure I just heard on Radio 4 that disabled students would still get these grants- I may have misheard but I hope not.

[MamanOfThree]

The other side if the coin is that, as a nation, we need to have enough educated people. Seen that even nurses now need a degree, that's a lot of people with good qualifications that are needed!

So do we want to have a nation with well educated people so we can carry in growing the economy or do we want to ry on immigration for the shortfall (as we do with nurses btw)?
Do wee see education as something you do for pleasure and self development (so not everyone should do that) or do we see it as essential for the country?
Do we then want the graduates to be as to warn well and spend their money (good for the economy) or do we prefer that they struggle to repay their loan, don't spend and avoid a big mortgage because of the loan?

Such decisions will have some long term effects.

[coffeeisnectar]

My dd needs a degree for her chosen profession. The nhs used to pay for access to uni for paramedics but no longer. Neither me (disabled) or my partner (long term sick after an rta) are working and we can't help her at all. I don't know what she's going to do now but will talk to her tonight and see if we can find some resolution.

[MaggieJoyBlunt]

I'm sure I just heard on Radio 4 that disabled students would still get these grants- I may have misheard but I hope not.

Yes. I think (hope) that she meant the Special Support Grant.

[MaggieJoyBlunt]

(Because she also mentioned students with dependants and another group, which I forget)

[kinkytoes]

DDA yes access to higher education education should be a right. Having it paid for by the state should not be. In my opinion when you get to the age of 18 you need to start learning some independence and self reliance.

Something has to give and not everyone fits uni anyway. The assumption that everyone 'should' go really puts unfair pressure on those who decide it's not for them. People who choose not to go to uni should feel it's just as valid a choice. I wonder if there is now some kind of stigma among college aged kids towards those who choose not to go?

Also DDA you sound very defeatist about your dd's chances of finding work. I hope your attitude doesn't affect hers.

[Gemauve]

Such decisions will have some long term effects.

Grants, as opposed to loans, constitute about 8% of total maintenance funding. I can't put my hand to the figures for how many students receive them, so assuming they're tapered, I'd guess at most 15% receive some of their funding as grants. So your broad questions are not really relevant: for about 80% of students, today's announcements make no difference. For the remaining 15% of students, it makes no difference now (they'll get the same money), and no difference in ten years' time (they'd be paying their loan either way because of the fees), it might just (depending on the job they get) make a small difference in twenty years' time.