To allow DH to continue in his disillusionment

[MrsAukerman]

He has quite bad hayfever and I recommended he eat local honey. My parents gave him a jar of honey from their road (35 miles away). I have since read more and believe there is no benefit. Fine, except DH is convinced it's working and is very happy eating honey regularly now. He appears to be experiencing a placebo effect. I have therefore said nothing about my further reading on the subject and am allowing him to continue benefitting from the placebo. AIBU to conceal the truth in order for the placebo to continue working?

I have no intention of ruining it for him.
I am aware that googling this type of thing then professing to know all about it is the height of stupidity.
I can get some much more local honey on Sunday (3 streets away) when the allotment shop opens for the 1 hour a week!

More than anything I thought it was an interesting twist on the placebo trials that have been run previously which showed that placebos work only when patient (DH) and doctor (me in this case -or Dr Google) both buy into it.
In our scenario at the time of "prescribing" the honey I believes but now the "prescription" needs renewing I no longer believe. The patient doesn't know I no longer believe though. What impact would that have? Also, is a minor concealing of the perceived truth a marital indiscretion?

And no I don't read the daily mail.

To be honest, most medecines rely on the placebo effect.
AND placebo effect doesn't mean it's not working! It means it's working because the person is convinced it will (plus a lot of other reasons).

So in effect, it's working so why rain on his parade?

Some studies have indicated that even if the person is explicitly told it's a placebo, it still has a significant effect:
www.newscientist.com/article/dn19904-placebos-can-work-even-when-you-know-theyre-fakes.html

Can someone explain to me exactly how honey is good for you?

There has been very interesting work done on placebos. There has been shown to be a statistically significant effect, even where both the prescriber and patient are aware that it is a placebo.

The interaction between our brain and other parts of our bodies is far more complex than we might be excused for thinking.

Oh, x posted with puddock.

Fascinating stuff.

Honey's good for you anyway, it's no bad thing. My DH has terrible hay fever too so YANBU not to tell him!

And tbh he could figure it out for himself anyway. If someone told me to eat something to help a condition I'd do my own research first.

Was about to post the same link as puddock... :)

My team work with the placebo effect a lot. It's fascinating.

Far from, there seem to be numerous interesting properties of honey. Certain types are used successfully in wound care, for example. In the lab it has anti inflammatory and antibacterial properties, but it's still not clear how that translates into real life clinical use.

The hay fever thing bones from the fact that you can desensitise to pollen allergies by ingesting pollens orally. However... Most get broken down in the digestive tract before being exposed to the immune system, and The types of flowers that make up the pollen in honey aren't exactly the same as the types that cause most people's hay fever. Grass pollen is wind borne, for example, not bee transferred.

But overall, op, I'd say let him eat it. It seems to be a bad hay fever season this year, my poor dh is suffering terribly and his antihistamines aren't touching it :(

I love honey, I've eaten it every day since being weaned :) (yes I know, botulism/shouldn't give it to babies...this was the seventies...)

If he has a leaky gut (very common in those with hay fever and allergies), the honey will be absorbed far faster than the digestive tract breaks it down. For the very same reason he is allergic to pollen, he may well be experiencing desensitisation. Obviously, the worse his allergy, the more permeable his gut wall, there for the more effective the desensitisation.

I'm always astonished when people rubbish or dismiss a result as its "only the placebo effect".

Surely being cured/getting fantastic results from the placebo effect is absolutely amazing and a fantastic medical result and I wonder why loads and loads more research isn't being done on how/why people can be cured by placebos??

Probably because there is noting for the drugs companies in it - no money, no funding, no research.

He's done some research and believes he's right and it works. You've done some research and believe you're right and it doesn't. Who's to say you're more right than he is?

Your parents honey is relatively local. It is not from NZ or Mexico.
Also it is real unadulterated honey.

As already mentioned honey is used now by the NHS in leg ulcer dressings, tea tree dressings are used now for burns.
Twenty years ago this would have been considered quackery.

LovelyFriend: because thinking yourself better isn't 'good science' it is considered to be woo, like hand on healing and reiki etc.

The largely unleashed power that each of us has is enormous but of no benefit to the drugs companies.

I wonder how much money the over the counter hay fever medication generates each year?

Certain types are used successfully in wound care, for example. In the lab it has anti inflammatory and antibacterial properties, but it's still not clear how that translates into real life clinical use

I've been out of ward nursing for nearly 10 years and we were using honey as a dressing then and seeing great effects. Most of this practice was based on Dr Peter Molans research. Though as I've said I've been out of it for a while so maybe some new research has disproved it.

now the "prescription" needs renewing I no longer believe. The patient doesn't know I no longer believe though. What impact would that have?

Some GPs will prescribe things they know don't work and explicitly say "there's no real evidence this works but other patients have found this helpful". i.e. they are knowingly prescribing placebos.

I believe that they then do work better than nothing. Perhaps the effect is just diminished rather than eliminated if the doctor is in on the act? (Shouldn't really spend the morning at work Googling this though so will not look up the evidence right now)

The problem with this however is that a) placebos are rarely as effective as the real drug and b) if there isn't a good genuine treatment but patients are happier with placebos than nothing, they may not be motivated to participate in efforts to find a good genuine treatment.

drspouse a lot if medications ARE just placebo anyway.

I would be VERY careful to dismiss the placebo effect because it makes an 'effective' drug more effective for example.
I actually think that all doctors should do their best the enhance the placebo effect because basically it helps people get better. And surely that's what we want?

If it works, it works. The reason is irrelevant. If you think saying that in your opinion it's 'only' a placebo, will stop it working then say nothing. He's happy.

As long as he's not annoying everybody by evangelizing about it, the treatment isn't actually harmful (to him or anybody else), he's not refusing an effective treatment for a serious condition (an example of this would be something like trying to treat diabetes with dietary supplements instead of proper medical care), and it isn't draining your bank account, let him get on with it. Honey on toast sounds pretty good, and pretty harmless.

Honey is used on babies who have had surgery at the hospital I work at.
its used for wound care

If you want to find a supplier of really local honey go to the BBKA website (British Beekeepers Association), go to the swarm bit and put in your postcode, it will bring up the phone numbers of the beekeepers nearest to you. One of them will probably be able to sell you some honey which will definitely not be the supermarket rubbish.

Interesting new information. Thanks everyone. I will let him carry on in sweet ignorance (or is it?!?!).
Pretty sure the bees 3 streets away will be the most local honey available but will check out BBKA.

You should get some pet bees. This thread has inspired me to take my telfast with honey later!