Kitchen Nightmare!

[Help2015]

I recently purchased a Schuller kitchen through one of their suppliers in the UK. The suppliers do not have a showroom. They apparently rely on word of mouth and have a website.

Before placing the order I asked what the kitchen cabinets were made off and this is the reply i received, 'The doors are high density MDF and the carcasses are 16mm thick MDF. The front is gloss laminate'.

I have this in an email from the supplier.

The doors are indeed high density MDF and the carcasses are 16mm however, the carcasses are chipboard not high density MDF like stated.

I placed the order thinking the carcasses were high density MDF and they weren't. I have been lied to and im not particularly happy about it. The kitchen has been fitted by an independent kitchen fitter.

Furthermore, when the kitchen arrived from Germany one of the wall units was the wrong size and this delayed the fit and has cost me extra money because I had to call back the kitchen fitter, electrician and plumber the following week to finish off the install.

The original plans showed what size the wall unit should have been and the supplier even confirmed the size of this particular wall unit via email. However, they still sent out the wrong size. He's now blaming me but is willing to get it changed because i still owe him money.

I have so far paid just over £4000 for the kitchen. I still owe just over £3000. It would be cheaper for him to replace the wall unit at a cost to him rather than enter in to a civil dispute with me. He know's im thinking about not paying the outstanding balance.

In a nutshell I have been lied to about what the carcasses are made off, I have received rubbish customer service and i have had to pay extra monies to tradesmen because of the kitchen suppliers incompetence. I haven't signed any contract with the kitchen supplier. I have not received anything through the post or email about terms and conditions (i did ask).

I am now thinking about not paying the outstanding balance. I believe I have already paid what the kitchen is worth and due to the other issues highlighted above believe i am well within my rights. I know it's a civil dispute. But because I haven't signed any contract or agreed to any terms and conditions (there are none on the suppliers website either) does the supplier have a leg to stand on if he takes me to a small claims court?

Would he bother - bearing in mind the time, money, effort and potential harm it could do to his reputation?

I haven't spoken to him at length yet because im still considering my options. I will also be contacting the citizens advice bureau for advice.
What do people think?

Thanks in advance.

You talk about it being cheaper for him to replace the cabinet, then enter a civil dispute with you. However, the cabinet is now fitted. So he can't do that.

I can see you wanting a discount because the carcass wasn't mdf, and even have them pay for the additional work required (unless he offered to swop it before you had the extra work done) .

I still can't see how you come to think that equates to £3k.

I don't understand why you need to move pipes for the sake of a single wall cabinet. Surely it's just a cupboard?

While the MDF/chipboard mistake is unfortunate. It's pretty standard to be chipboard so it's not a huge deal.

Surely they could have just installed the kitchen and then the just the fitter could have come back later to fix the wall cabinet? It wouldn't have taken long.

You kept the kitchen and had it fitted when it wasn't what you wanted or understood it to be and you kept the wrong size unit and had that fitted.

Now you want to go back to the supplier and tell him you don't want to pay the full price for the kitchen.

Shouldn't you have done that before it was fitted? If you think he mislead you, why didn't you return the whole thing and get your money back.

What are you going to do if he says if you're not happy, send back the kitchen and he will refund your money?

You are being completely unreasonable.

As pp have said I think you're looking for ways to get away without paying the agreed price and you're testing the water on here to see if mn thinks it's doable.

You chose to keep the wrong unit, therefore the costs are yours. You could ask for that extra day's labour to be knocked off but he has offered to replace it. Annoying, but one of those things and hardly a 'nightmare'. Likewise the carcass 'issue'. It sounds like a miscommunication, and given that most kitchens are built like yours it isn't going to be an issue necessarily.

You just don't want to pay. Which is unfair. Your wrongly sized unit does not devalue the kitchen by approx 50%!

Hi OP. The fact that you didn't sign a contract doesn't actually mean that there isn't one - contracts can be made verbally or via email, as yours apparently was.

The problem you have here, from a legal standpoint, is that you appear to have accepted the goods and went on to have them installed even though you knew that the carcasses were not made of the material specified. So on this point, on the facts you have provided, you don't really have a leg to stand on.

You may have a case based on the fact that the wrong size cabinet was supplied - you have said that you had to get a new one sent out and this cost you money because you had to call out the fitters a second time. It will depend on the facts, but you may have a claim for the extra money spent on the fitting of the cabinet. However, if you accepted delivery of the second incorrectly sized cabinet, then for the same reason I have outlined above you would likely have no further claim for the actual cabinet itself.

Withholding the entire 3000 pounds, if it does not reflect the actual cost of the extra fitting work that had to be done, would not be reasonable and would very likely expose you to a civil claim by the supplier.

I would always recommend settling disputes out of court if possible. You need to raise the issue with the supplier, send him your invoices for the extra work done, and try to agree to deduct this from the outstanding balance. If he agrees, make sure you get this in writing.

And whether or not he would claim against you if you withheld the 3000 is difficult to say - but it does not cost much to file a small claim: it is quite simple and retailers do it all the time. I can't see how it would damage his reputation.

MDF stands for Medium Density Fibreboard. Therefore "high density MDF" makes no sense. It sounds like the person who answered your email thinks MDF is just a name for composite board.

If you wanted to make a thing of it, you could take this up with them. However, the fact remains that you installed the kitchen anyway - therefore you accepted the carcasses as supplied.

Also, you had pipework moved to accommodate the incorrectly-sized wall unit. You should have asked for a replacement. Given that you accepted the wrong unit & spent money having it integrated, you may have a case for asking them to knock off the £500. But if you did this before asking for a replacement, you're pushing your luck because you had de facto accepted the first unit.

Next time, buy a B&Q kitchen you can afford.

Thanks for the introduction to Schüller kitchens, though, they're gorgeous!

Hmm, didn't read the bit about having the pipe moved to fit the wrong-sized cabinet. I don't think you can claim for that work, as you accepted the wrong-sized cabinet and had it fitted - you did not mitigate your losses by sending it back to the supplier.

On the facts, I think the only money you have any right to withhold is the extra paid for a second visit by the fitters - i.e. costs directly resulting from the fact that they had to come out a second time.

I can afford the kitchen. Don't you worry about that. I'm not trying to withold the £3000 just a reasonable amount to cover the extra costs I have been billed for by my my tradesmen. I love how ppl get bitchy on here and make sarky remarks when it's not needed

I think your original Op comes across as if you are trying to pay as little as possible.

Should have gorn to B&Q

Maybe it's the 'C range'

This thread has made me start designing a new kitchen

You keep talking about withholding the outstanding amount. Therefore people are assuming you are planning on withholding the £3k.

And yes.....I am now planning a new kitchen

OP, you said 'I am now thinking about not paying the outstanding balance. I believe I have already paid what the kitchen is worth', which implies that you aren't intending on paying any more at all.

I don't think people are being bitchy at all.

I think you are being very dishonest and in my mind if you pay only pay ?1k for the ?4k kitchen, that is theft.
It does seem that you are looking to get something for nothing.

It's already all been said on here -you have got a contract with them. You shouldn't have accepted the kitchen delivery and had it fitted if you were not happy with the chipboard or the cabinet.
Asking for nearly £3,000 off would be very unreasonable. Presumably the kitchen looks nice and you are happy with it seeing as it's now installed? The chipboard is pretty standard and you won't see it anyway. The cabinet is annoying but it seems like it's been resolved with some help from your fitter.
I think you could reasonably negotiate with the company and ask for your extra fitting charges to be discounted from the bill - be prepared to provide evidence of this - and for a percentage off the wrong cabinet. I would expect a figure of around £500 though, not the £3,000 you are thinking of withholding.

You definitely have a contract - part payment and installation are proof of that, aside from it still holding up verbally.

I think you've missed your opportunity to complain about the material of the carcasses because you allowed them to be fitted.

At most, perhaps you have an opportunity to ask for a contribution towards your extra outlay, as a goodwill gesture.

But you have extra costs from your tradesmen because you chose to keep the wrong unit and had your pipes moved. If you'd just waited for the new cabinet you shouldn't have had to pay extra to have had it fitted. Unless of course you're paying by the day rather than one price (which is a silly way of doing things). I didn't pay extra when my kitchen fitter came back.