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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think the NCT should be free or much cheaper?

154 replies

TheHouseOnBellSt · 05/07/2015 14:37

So to many people £48 for an 18 month membership is nothing...it's spare change. But that charge effectively exlcludes anyone on a really low income.

So only those who can afford it will benefit from what is essentially meant to be a charity to support parents or parents to be.

Their "vision" is copied below

Our vision is a world in which parents are valued and supported to build a strong society, believing that a child’s early years significantly impact upon the future they help to shape.

Our charitable purpose

We offer information and support in pregnancy, birth and early parenthood.
We campaign to improve maternity care and ensure better services and facilities for new parents.
We aim to give every parent the chance to make informed choices.
We want to make sure that everyone has access to our services and activities.

But only if you have a spare 48 quid?

this Guardian Article claims that NHS antenatal classes are patchy...and that the middle classes are signing up to the NCT ones which are private of course...so basically the working classes and the unwaged are either getting nothing or not much.

WHY is the NCT a middle class thing? It's meant to be a charity!

OP posts:
Lennon80 · 06/07/2015 15:34

If you cant afford NCT classes you probably wouldn't be welcome there anyway. Its a group for middle class mums to meet with other middle class mums and discuss organic baby food recipes.

WorldsBiggestGrotbag · 06/07/2015 15:36

Can't remember ever talking organic baby food recipes with the wide range of different people from different socio economic groups I met at NCT, sorry Lennon!

Lennon80 · 06/07/2015 15:41

Oh maybe you got lost and went the NHS ones by mistake. Grin

The classes I went to were actually exactly the same as the ones put on by NCT but were free as they were NHS. The lady who did the course also did it for the NCT. As another poster said, its about finding other 'like minded' friends.

WinterOfOurDiscountTents15 · 06/07/2015 15:42

The list of things that people on here think should be free is seemingly endless.

How do you think the NCT would be able to run at all with no money ?

TendonQueen · 06/07/2015 15:43

Lennon, hope you got a well deserved first in your BA in Massive Generalisations degree..

WorldsBiggestGrotbag · 06/07/2015 15:45

As I said Lennon, I would have loved to go to NHS ones but my midwife told me not to even bother putting my name down as they were full. Fab eh?

Lennon80 · 06/07/2015 15:47

its not really a massive generalisation though is it TendonQueen it just touches a raw nerve as its true.

HermioneWeasley · 06/07/2015 15:52

No NHS ones at all where I live- it's pay for your own or have nothing.

By the way, why is it ok to sneer at "middle class mums". If someone said they didn't want to participate in something or it was crap because it's full of working class mums, they would (rightly) be flamed.

Lennon80 · 06/07/2015 15:56

I am a middle class mum myself, so I feel I can - if that is alright with you?

Lennon80 · 06/07/2015 16:00

the National Childbirth Trust and the class system

Books + Ideas — class, infant, sociology — June 2013

The National Childbirth Trust runs ante-natal classes for prospective parents, which midwives and friends all recommended to us, and we dutifully signed up for one. The classes themselves were vaguely useful, though I only made it to two of the five since Helen arrived early, but the big attraction is not the formal instruction but the chance to get to know a group of new parents with babies of the same age, living in the same area.

Random facts: Our group consists of nine women and their partners (all men) and with three sets of twins we have twelve children: two Dylans, Gabriel, Helen, Imogen, Leila, Lorian, Matilda, Maximilian, Rachel, Raphael, and Thomas. Three of the nine women had changed their names, at least formally, five of the other six couples used the mother's surname in their children's names, either hyphenated or as the last middle name. Twelve of us are on Facebook. There were a variety of medical problems with the births - Helen's wasn't the most complicated - but the result was twelve healthy infants.

Only one of the couples took advantage of the Additional Paternity Leave option of having the father take paternity leave in lieu of some of the mother's maternity leave.

All of us have professional jobs, maybe half of us with one or another university (Reading and Westminster feature as well as Oxford) and the others in medicine, publishing, programming and so forth. Amd it's a fairly international group, with another Australian as well as us and people with Portuguese and German backgrounds. But there are no Punjabis, no single mothers, no teenagers, and no blue-collar workers.

Our GP surgery had a notice about separate Asian mothers' groups, which may explain the segregation there, and the hospital runs free ante-natal classes (though so adroitly did the midwives direct us to the NCT classes that I missed the mention of these). Possibly what the £165 we paid for the course really provides is a filter to keep out undesirables... (At the other end, the parents who paid £500/night for private rooms in the hospital probably know each other already — see "Chipping Norton set".)

Our group is a great bunch of people and it certainly makes it easier that we all have similar kinds of backgrounds. But are we looking at the English class system replicating itself, with the NCT as an institutionalised structural component? Not all of us will establish longer-term relationships, obviously, but if we stay in Oxford it's likely that some of Helen's friends - and ours - will come from this group. (While most of the group are British, I don't think any of us are local to Oxford; with a sister a block away, I probably have the closest relatives of any of us.)

There's been some discussion about this in the media, but focused more on the Trust's emphasis on breast-feeding and natural birth (the NCT began life as the Natural Childbirth Trust) and role in the general performance pressure placed on parents, and especially mothers. The sociology seems just as interesting to me: obviously individuals are capable of producing segregation without channeling - even when it's unwanted, as the Schelling segregation model shows - but the social landscape they find themselves in makes some paths a lot easier to follow than others. It seems likely that if the NCT didn't exist and most people went to ante-natal classes run by the NHS or local authorities then there would be greater social mixing.

Knottyknitter · 06/07/2015 16:53

But Lennon if most people went to nhs classes there would have to be many more of them - in my area they were booked up very early, despite being in the middle of the day. I know we're entitled to time off for antenatal classes, but dads to be aren't, so are you expecting them not to bother? Mums who work are at a disadvantage too, even with the time off available, for me that would have involved cancelling a whole nhs clinic at fairly short notice ie after appointment letters have been sent out because with an hour journey each way plus the class I'd be off half a day. I don't like to do that to my patients, tbh, and I'm sure you'd complain if your appointment was cancelled on you for similar.

Also who pays the petrol there and back twice in the day?

If you put on a range of daytime and evening classes people will self select as they do now, based on accessibility for both parents, practicality, and perceived "sameness" of the others likely to go.

Lennon80 · 06/07/2015 17:10

If everyone went to NHS classes the demand would mean greater supply. Its the sharp elbows of the middle class that keep the NHS in good shape! I cant believe someone who obviously works in health would not agree. Also I am sure whatever your role is you are not irreplaceable. Besides a one day course can impart the information they give you. That was the one offered to me and it sufficed.

Lennon80 · 06/07/2015 17:12

Ps you could apply your logic to the whole of the NHS, but Lennon if everyone went to an NHS hospital you would need many more of them... that is how privatisation occurs and it benefits only those who can afford it. I wouldn't go to NCT out of bloody principle.

PosterEh · 06/07/2015 17:13

If yours was only one day then it isn't the same as NCT like you said earlier as they tend to be a minimum of two full days.

HermioneWeasley · 06/07/2015 17:15

As I've said repeatedly on this thread THERE WERE NO, ZERO, ZILCH, ANTE NATAL CLASSES ON THE NHS WHERE I LIVED.

If you pushed, they would send a DVD of a tour of the delivery suites.

PosterEh · 06/07/2015 17:16

I went to both NHS and NCT classes and they were very different.

As an aside my parents had a fully subsidised NCT class place when they had me in their early 20s. My dm wasn't working (she was a recent immigrant) and my df worked delivering pizzas.

ChocolateWombat · 06/07/2015 17:30

Does the OP mean she thinks the COURSES should be free or cheaper, rather than membership itself. You don't have to be a member to book onto a course. There used to only be 1 ante natal course, which was about £200 (10 years ago) but since then they also offer a slightly shorter and cheaper course too.

The NCT isn't government funded, so it has to find itself somehow and the fees cover that. As has been pointed out, people can ask for subsidised places on the courses and certainly don't need to fork out for membership. I agree that there should be provision if NHS courses for all pregnant first timers at least, and they should be everywhere. The NCT version is more detailed and not vital if you have attended a free NHS course.

In terms of information, most of it can be gained from books and websites. I think that most people sign up for a course (not same as joining NCT) to get a bit of info, but primarily to meet people having babies at a similar time to them. My DH calls it 'rent a friend' - so are those who think it is too expensive saying the INFO should be available free/cheaper or the FRIENDS should be available free/cheaper? Is it the friends or the info they want?

Incidentally, people can join an ante-natal group AFTER the course has been run for no cost. My group had a lady join who only moved to the area just before her baby was born - she joined our group without having done the course - the NCT put her in touch with the rest of us. She didn't pay a penny. And after babies are born, NCT groups continue to meet with no cost at all - my group have met socially for 10 years now - none of us are paid up members if the NCT and none of us have ever paid the NCT more than the course fee. The group has far outlasted that course we did 10 years ago and the women in it have been a fantastic support and become good friends. Is it this friendship that people want access to more cheaply or the info the NCT provide?

ChocolateWombat · 06/07/2015 17:33

I think ante natal information provision should be available for all free. That is the job of the government and the NHS. I don't think it is the job of the NCT - they do attempt to make it more affordable, but cannot offer it for free.

How do those who think it should be free or even cheaper than the subsidised places suggest it is funded instead, bearing in mind it isn't government run?

WorldsBiggestGrotbag · 06/07/2015 18:01

If I didn't go to NCT then I wouldn't have had the option of an antenatal course at all Lennon!! It was full. With 30 people on the waiting list. Plenty of demand, no supply.

TendonQueen · 06/07/2015 18:32

Lennon, on what basis are you saying 'it's true' other than the one group you attended yourself, and your 16.00 post, which also refers to a single group?

GrimDamnFanjo · 06/07/2015 18:45

With my first I did both NCT and NHS. I must have gone to the only NCT class in the UK where no one seemed to "bond" which was annoying as that was my only reason for going.

The tutor was strongly in favour of no medical intervention. I can remember her passing around a foetal monitoring clip thing with comments about how wrong it was...

Thankfully my NHS course prepared me well for my very medical birth.

I remember though it being put in my notes that I went to NCT classes though, probably as a warning to the midwives I could be trouble.

waitaminutenow · 06/07/2015 18:54

Oh ffs...is there anything that people don't expect for free these days!!....if you can't afford it then don't do it!

ChocolateWombat · 06/07/2015 19:24

Because NHS courses are full or not available in all areas is not a reason why the NCT should be free.
It is not the job of the NCT to offer free courses to the whole population - it is the job of the Gov to do this via the NHS. The NCT a offers heavily subsidised courses already, but it is not the fault of the NCT if people cannot access an NHS course. The Gov should get its act together to provide enough NHS courses.

Of course there are other ante natal course providers too, beyond the NCT. Some of these are significantly more expensive. Do people think that all of this should be free or heavily subsidised?

Often free or subsidised baby massage is available at SureStart Centres, and free or subsidised play groups too. No doubt these fill up, but this does not mean that all private nurseries or baby massage teachers should offer their services for free.

WorldsBiggestGrotbag · 06/07/2015 19:46

Chocolate I was one of the ones saying my NHS course was full. This doesn't mean I think NCT should be free, of course not, they provide a service which people (including me) pay for. I was just mentioning it in response to posters implying only middle class yummy mummies wanting to buy friends pay for NCT. That wasn't why I paid, I paid because otherwise i wouldn't have had antenatal classes. And it was worth every penny!