To think playtime should be better managed?

[TheHouseOnBellSt]

Fully prepared to be told if I am BU.

I've often heard people say that school is just as important "for social reasons" as it is for academic. It's often trotted out when someone thinks about home education...."But what about her social development??"

And so forth. But...I think that for many children, the reality is that socialising in school is not all it's cracked up to be.

You have some kids who are excellent socially...you could possibly say that they are a minority...I have one DD who is excellent socially and one who'se had to learn.

Anyway...my friend's son has ASD and is in infants but starting to struggle...she's at a loss because he has no one to one at playtime...she's seen him alone...wandering.

He's maybe the extreme end of things but many kids have periods when they need guidance at playtime.

I'm aware that my friend's son has little support from the midday assistants as of course they're trying to "police" a whole playground...

Here's my point....shouldn't there be more support for all the kids at playtime? Some trained staff.....not necessarily teachers...but people who know something about play and learning...who could be more hands on and helpful when it comes to children learning to get on together?

I know there are kids in year 6 who struggle at my own DDs school...kids in other years who do...kids who can't share...kids who bully...kids who have issues understanding the fine nuances of conversation...the list goes on...and yet they're all thrown out together at breaks and expected to sort themselves out!

AIBU?

I don't think you are going to get anyone saying that it's a bad idea, it's a great idea

I know a few schools that do it and more that would like to...they don't because they don't have enough staff. Whether that's a lack of money or enthusiasm I don't know

kids are savvy enough to shape their own play groups

playtime should be the one time left up to the kids to manage

Believe me, with two of my own kids on the spectrum and 20 years of experience, I really don't think he is on the spectrum. He is still given support. I was not sneering at him. He has a large group of friends. I just listen to him and redirect him to other children because I can't force the other children to only play what he wants.

I think that if someone was planning a school routine for the first time today, the idea of kicking all the children out into the playground together for 40 mins in the middle of every day with 2 or 3 barely qualified adults for supervision would be seen as unacceptable.

Some more enlightened schools are now moving towards at least keeping the reception children in their classroom and dedicated outdoor environment for break and lunchtimes and enabling them to continue engaging with their learning in a more appropriate and manageable social environment. It would be lovely to see this extended further up schools.

Teachers do need lunch breaks but early years settings seem to manage to provide a sensible number of qualified staff to cover mealtimes. It could be possible with staggered break times for staff and children, TAs who do half days staying to cover lunch times, employment and training of play leaders for lunch times, to enable the number of children outside together to be limited and supervision to become more constructive, helping children learn social and other skills rather than letting them sink or swim and hoping someone spots the ones who are drowning.

I live in hope that I will see this progress, perhaps in time for my very much hypothetical grandchildren to experience when they start school.

South SOME are savvy enough...others form groups or pairs that aren't healthy....or they're excluded...or they just struggle.

Gold what a great post and very informative.

Sorry youthecat, I'm sure you don't sneer, but I do worry how my DS is perceived And of course others shouldn't be forced to do something, or play with someone, they don't want to. Your post just struck a chord with me really, it demonstrated how beneficial extra help would be.
Sadly, I don't think it will happen.....

In our school a nine year old with asd plays or wanders around by himself each day. In lreland teachers do all supervision. Everytime lm on supervision duty l encourage him to play.l find a group for him. I try everything but soon as l turn around he is back on his own. I'm sure if his mom was passing she would think we do nothing but he genuinely does not want to play or even chat with anyone. He is a fabulous child very bright very articulate and the other children seem to like him. It is totally his decision not to play as more comfortable on his own. On rainy days he will however play chess or checkers with no conversation unless it's about the move.

June yes...but as I said in my own example, my friend's son with ASD is the more extreme end of social difficulties. Children are varied in their abilities and whilst the child with diagnosed ASD might seem happy alone, there are another 30 shades inbetween him and the most socially able child in the class.

We have a number of children who either have a diagnosis of autism or who I'm pretty sure are on the spectrum. Some of them prefer adult company and just don't 'get' the other kids. I'm happy enough wandering with them and chatting if that's what they want to do. Like I said though, our time is limited.

I can honestly say lunchtime supervision is one of the toughest jobs I have ever done. It is relentless. You cannot drop your guard for a second.

Unfortunately OP this is the real life implications of budget cuts. It would be ideal to have enough teachers around to adequately supervise and facilitate playtimes, especially to help those children who need extra attention. But extra staffing requires money. Money that most schools don't have.

It is totally his decision not to play as more comfortable on his own. On rainy days he will however play chess or checkers with no conversation unless it's about the move.

So maybe he would engage in activities if they were more appropriate to his needs?

He may be choosing to disengage from the play as soon as your back is turned because he realises that he can't play their games successfully without adult support so it isn't worth trying. He might be choosing to be on his own because the playground is a rather overwhelming sensory environment in which he can't concentrate on play. He might need some down time to recharge his batteries in a quiet, calm environment away from other children and wandering around on his own is the best approximation to that he can manage. There are dozens of reasons why this child may not be engaging in the usual playground activities and to say you've tried to engage him and he just doesn't want to so that's the end f your responsibility is a little disingenuous.

It isn't OK for children to be left for a large chunk of every day in such an inappropriate environment just because that's what works for the teachers and their lunch breaks. We've made all sorts of changes in schools to ensure that children's needs are better met over the years, lots of which cost extra time or money. This is one that I hope will follow at some point and people will look back in years to come and ask themselves why on earth we did this to our children.

The classroom is now an intensely social environment and which children spend all day working and playing together, learning to cooperate and negotiate. They don't need an hour a day in a chaotic and largely unsupervised playground to learn survival social skills.

We see it as normal because it's what we did as children. That doesn't mean it's right.

I think it's a great idea. If my SEND budget were unlimited I'd hire people to do this. However, as long as schools are judged so squarely on results, the priority will remain support in classrooms.

If schools were left to produce more rounded, happy children- rather than test passing, criteria quoting students- you might see more play workers employed.

We employ a sports coach at lunchtime and have a structured indoor play session 2 days a week, in addition I have trained yr6s to lead simple games. However, the first 2 cost us a lot of money, the third relies on children remembering to include others and not getting carried away with the games.

If I were staying in this country and had the luxury of time, I would set up a charity which provided playworkers in school playgrounds...I'd love to do that and let it grow.

Exactly Goldmandra
'I think that if someone was planning a school routine for the first time today, the idea of kicking all the children out into the playground together for 40 mins in the middle of every day with 2 or 3 barely qualified adults for supervision would be seen as unacceptable.'

My son's school are doing this from September. Play workers will be replacing the outside cover previously provided by dinner ladies as DLs leave ( 2 have recently handed in their notice so it was an opportunity to put this in place). They will supervise ball games, hand out skipping ropes and help children get involved in active play like den building.

The Dinner Ladies were told at interview that they should be involved in this kind of thing, but I think hark back to their own dinner ladies who stood around talking and blew a whistle about bad behaviour so they just aren't getting involved in the active play like they said they would.

Peter sounds great! Especially the den building! My older DD who struggled socially when younger was never happier than when they did full time Forest School for two weeks. So wonderful.

My son had an IEP for socialisation because he can't cope with the playground, despite having friends and playing he has additional needs and struggles with communication and social language. Unfortunately it wasn't followed and he was left to get very distressed most playtimes and then yelled at by untrained support staff for lashing out. Goading him into getting upset also became a fun pastime for some of the older kids.

It is one of the (many) reasons I withdrew him from school. Now we can meet up with small groups and control the situation better. Not a chance at 6 years old was I going to continue to subject him to that misery.

It's a lovely idea but who deals with all the usual fallout, the skinned knees and those children who would rather chop their own foot off than join in structured play?

Not read whole thread but I know some schools provide play time staff with a sheet with names and photos of pupils who are vulnerable to bullying or just being left out, as well as known perpetrators. They can then police the situation discreetly. Pupils can even come and point to the picture if they don't want to talk about it.

you

I think you will find that's the "barely trained adults"

Yes, and that's a load of shite. We all have first aid training for a start and put up with a awful lot of disrespect from children. I can see where they get the attitude. I've had 5 year olds tell me 'you can't tell me off 'cos my mam said'.

These play workers will still have to deal with all the usual playground stuff. It will still happen no matter how many dens are being built. And it would take a hell of a lot more staff than schools currently have on lunchtime duty to do all of this.

There is no money available.

Agree you

But also agree with the OP in that if this was an ideal world instead of one supervisor per 30 children (in some schools...not all) you would have one per 10/15 which would enable all the supervisors to interact more with the children

But as you say....no money

Hm, I don't know. I was a very shy child and I valued being able to mooch off with one or two friends at breaktimes. Organised fun would have been my idea of hell.

is not part of the problem that mainstream schools now have to cope with too many varying special/additional needs children without adequate resources.

I personally think that there for some a dedicated special needs school with the smaller classes and higher staff:pupil ratio is a better option than a mainstream schoo.