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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be so angry that my baby could have died and no emergency service could reach us

79 replies

CountryMummy1 · 02/07/2015 15:45

My 14 month old baby had a severe episode of croup a few nights ago, so bad that he went blue and floppy. We were at my parents house in Wales and had to phone the ambulance. It took them 2 hours to locate us as the road that leads to the house was not in their map. It was the worst 2 hours of my life. When they eventually found us (from asking at other houses) they discovered that they couldn't get the ambulance down our road so they had to run up.

DS was so bad that my husband had to drive him, me and the 2 ambulance men down the road back to the ambulance.

Obviously I can't risk this ever happening again as my parents are now elderly. Having phoned the council I have found out that it is classed as an unadopted footpath?? Surely this can't be right if it is the only vehicle access to the property. What on earth do i do now?

OP posts:
SirVixofVixHall · 02/07/2015 16:09

Where in wales were you? I am in rural Wales, but in a village. A friend had a bad tractor accident recently and lay with several broken bones, including a pelvis Shock for 45 minutes before the ambulance reached him. It is rather terrifying. I think ambulance services here seem particularly bad.

GirlsonFilm · 02/07/2015 16:15

Have the ordinance(sp?) survey map reference to hand, we're rural and the ambulance service can find us from that rather than the postcode (we live a long way down an unmarked track and the postcode only takes satnavs to the mainroad about three miles from us).

However even in good addresses average response time for rural ambulances is way outside the national targets, so even if the ambulance service know where the address it may take longer than you would expect.

fiverabbits · 02/07/2015 16:26

I live in Cardiff, 10 minutes from the largest hospital in Wales and I had to wait over 3 hours for an ambulance for my DS after a OOH DR said he needed an ambulance straight away. After an hour I was advised by the DR that if I rang 999 it would come immediately, well it took 2 hours. I complained and was told that the operator didn't flag it up as an emergency. You need to find out why it took so long so you can decide the best course next time. If you are wondering why we didn't take him ourselves, well he had NOROVIRUS and he is diabetic the DR said don't take him to A & E he needs to go into isolation. The DR in A & E asked why we waited until he was so ill so we told that an ambulance took 3 hours, he didn't say anymore.

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 02/07/2015 16:26

To get a road adopted, it first has to be brought up to a standard that the council will deem to be maintainable. This can be very very expensive - it will probably include road drainage systems, if there are any, and any street lighting. What is the road like? Is it tarmac? Is it full of potholes? Why couldn't the ambulance get up it if a car can?

Bilberry · 02/07/2015 16:27

Unadopted roads are the responsibility of the landowner - which could be your parents or the farmer who owns the surrounding land. If you want the council to adopt it then the owner must firstly pay to have it brought up to the standard of a 'proper' road (and a new one at that - not the potholed lanes that pass for a road). This would probably be in itself prohibitively expensive. I think then you still need to pay the council to adopt it.

VivaLeBeaver · 02/07/2015 16:31

If the road is so bad that an ambulance can't get down it is it more like a dirt track? I used to live in a hillside cottage in Wales and there is no way an ambulace could have got there, even a car couldn't.

I really doubt the coulcil will adopt it, they have no reason or incentive to. Once its adopted the council would be liable for maintaining it which will cost them money.

arethereanyleftatall · 02/07/2015 16:32

Have any other services trying to find the house - deliveries, postmen etc - ever had a problem?

DonkeyOaty · 02/07/2015 16:35

I think short-term, a sturdy finger post, maybe wedged firmly in the hedge, with clear large letters at the entrance to the lane/track would be a great help.

ShatnersBassoon · 02/07/2015 16:39

How long is the track to their house? How are things like waste collection and parcel deliveries managed?

TTWK · 02/07/2015 16:42

I live in Cardiff, 10 minutes from the largest hospital in Wales and I had to wait over 3 hours for an ambulance

I rest my case! Those running the Welsh NHS should be on trial and then in prison. It's a shambles.

PurpleSwift · 02/07/2015 16:48

Can I ask why you waited so long in such an urgent situation if your husband can drive?

DragonWithAGirlTattoo · 02/07/2015 16:51

agreed, a VERY large sign would be a good idea

specialsubject · 02/07/2015 16:53

that's rural living for you.

and yes, that's the Welsh NHS for you. The Montgomeryshire MP is protesting against the inevitableclosure of Shrewsbury hospital because the Welsh rely on it as their own service can't cope as it is. Trouble is neither can Shropshire as things are.

all services are heading to Telford or even to Stoke.

and then I see an ad whining that London only has one air ambulance. EVERYONE is London is under 10 miles from a hospital.

gobbin · 02/07/2015 16:58

Those running the Welsh NHS should be on trial and then in prison. It's a shambles

I don't know about those running the Welsh NHS, but our experience of it in the last 12 months has been outstanding (two major bowel ops and a brain haemhorrage between us). The ambulance for DH took 15 mins to arrive in the centre of Cardiff, but only because it was directed to the wrong building across the road by a well-meaning person at DH's work, otherwise it would have been there in about 5.

In my opinion, if people choose to live in remote rural areas, however lovely that may be, one of the big downsides is difficult access to critcial care services. The solution is to move.

sanfairyanne · 02/07/2015 17:08

fiverabbits our gp would phone the ward direct so they were expecting us and we could bypass a + e. you could also ask for 'open access' if you think this might happen often. if your hospital doesnt offer this it might be worth raising as an issue. stupid for your trust to pay for ambulances if they could organise it better

florascotia · 02/07/2015 17:41

I hope your baby is OK. Your experience does sound horribly frightening, but I don't think anger is the right resonse. In a very rural area one simply cannot expect an ambulance to arrive quickly, or for ambulance drivers to know each and every tiny unadopted road.

Please excuse me if what follows covers matters you already know - or if, because I seem to have taken ages to type this, other posters have said similar things already:

I live in rural Scotland. The nearest ambulance is stationed about 1.5 hours drive away. (Air ambulances can't be relied on 24/7, because of darkness and wild weather.) The land ambulance has to cover a vast, rugged area from that point and it obviously can't be in two places at once. So we have first responders www.scottishambulance.com/YourCommunity/responders.aspx. These are well trained people (some up to paramedic standard) who live locally, know the area, drive a van containing a lot of very useful kit - oxygen, ECG machine, defibrillator etc etc etc. They have walkie talkies which usually work even where there is no phone signal. You call them in an emergency either via NHS 111/NHS 24 or by 999. They turn up to help while the ambulance is on its way and have saved many lives - although most teams are not trained to cope with babies (for good reason - it's a specialist area - but maybe that is something to try to change).

Also while waiting for the ambulance, it is sometimes possible to talk to a duty doctor or to get him/her to phone you - there will be one, though it can take persistence to get though - on NHS 111/NHS 24.

(All is not perfect with this system, however. The NHS relies over-much on very, very dedicated people who give up their time as volunteers or for low pay but take on huge responsibilities. In some areas, there are simply not enough local people willing or able to act as volunteers. Ideally, there would be something like an out of hours doctor or nurse practitioner on duty in each remote locality, but the NHS usually says it can't manage to recruit them. And even then, they might easily take the best part of an hour to reach you. Our GP's surgery is an hour away by road.)

Doesn't Wales have a first responder scheme? If there is not yet such a scheme in your parent's area, can you/they/the local community campaign to start one?

There are also larges notice in GP surgeries telling people to make sure that their houses are clearly named/ signposted, with big clear letters that can be read from the road and in the dark.

As an earlier poster suggests, it's a good idea to have a card with the grid ref of a remote house on it. Also - because in an emergency, people sometimes get flustered and don't communicate clearly - to have a clear, brief, simple set of instructions to be read out over the phone telling emergency services how to get to a house from the nearest road with an A or B number. This helps not only an ambulance but police and fire services, and also delivery drivers, and even the AA.

Living down an unadopted road is just part of remote rural life, I'm afraid. It's a balancing act - which do you want more: peace and quiet or quick communications? The two rarely go together. (In my experience, the answer to that question can change, at different stages of a person's life. ) In the current financial climate, I can't imagine any council being willing to adopt a road they don't already own.

Bicarb · 02/07/2015 17:53

/nerd hat

From my time at the council rights of way department, you are allowed to drive a car up a footpath if it's for access to a private property that isn't accessible any other way. It doesn't have to be a BOAT in order to do so.

/nerd hat off

whois · 02/07/2015 18:03

Would giving coordinates have helped? When you phone mountain rescue they can find you via coordinates.

I also agree a big sign at the top with your parents house name/address would help.

Thing is, if the hospital is 1.5 h away, why did you think it would take much less than that for an ambulance to get to you? They aren't like taxis roaming about.

CountryMummy1 · 02/07/2015 18:11

Thanks everyone for your advice. I will take it all on board. I've also found out now that they don't have a bin collection and they drive their rubbish bag to the local caravan park and dump it in their bins. Will have to look into that as well.

OP posts:
dixiechick1975 · 02/07/2015 18:56

Nothing unusual re an un adopted road. Lots are. It may be privately owned by adjacent houses, local landowner or it may be impossible to find out who owns it. Council will only consider adopting if it is brought up to standard. I'd contact local ambulance service and ask if they can flag address with the correct postcode/details of nearest main rd.

lljkk · 02/07/2015 19:20

Are they paying reduced council tax rates, do they have any surface runoff or do they have septic tank instead of mains drainage?

OddBoots · 02/07/2015 20:54

Does that footpath/road lead to more than just their house? Is there a street/community that can only be accessed that way?

Unless there are many houses I think you have a much better chance of getting your parents to move than you do of getting the road adopted, however stuck in their ways you parents are you'll find councils even more so. There may however be some help to assist them moving if they would struggle practically or financially to do so.

LapsedTwentysomething · 02/07/2015 20:59

Mid Wales has an excellent air ambulance service. No choice really given that there are no A&E units. I agree with Wales NHS being a shambles though. I think the air ambulance is a charity, which would explain the hit and miss coverage.

That must have been terrifying for you OP.

LapsedTwentysomething · 02/07/2015 21:00

And actually I think you are right to be angry. After all you were in mainland UK and as such should be covered by the National Health Service.

goodasitgets · 02/07/2015 21:06

I answer ambulance 999 calls
Things that help us find places
Off roads, BIG house numbers, directions. Things like "it's second left after the white gate"
They can ring back for more directions. And we can also stay on the phone in case of problems
Off topic but if out walking and you don't know where you are (or driving) tell us where you were going from and to
We have a map, so even if unadopted road, we can see other landmarks, locations and roads