Does anyone actually believe that employers will raise wages if tax credits are cut?

[ssd]

We get tax credits, I earn £6.50 an hour, that's minimum wage.

I dont for a single moment think my employer will raise my wage when my tax credits are cut.

AIBU to ask, does anyone, apart from this government, actually believe wages will go up when TC are cut?

Maybe I'm being naive, and years of being in a workplace have left me to think that's the last thing that will happen.

AIBU?

All benefits (except disability) should be scrapped.

Then everyone should be paid a citizens income instead.

Cheap and easy to administer. Means everyone has enough to live on.

My family are entitled to CTC it keeps us out of poverty. I work full time, i can guarantee i wont get a pay rise as i work for the LA and have had one % once in last 6 years

If tax credits are cut, it's probable that employers will collectively pay out slightly more and employees will at the same time collectively take home slightly less.

The two numbers can and probably will move in opposite directions when the wedge that separates them is shrunk.

So two different people can say wages will go up or down, and both be right, simply because they're measuring at a different point.

Slightly off topic but ... the miminum wage is £6.50?!?!?

Bloody hell, I thought it was £8.50! That is just outrageous.

On topic - I don't think the govt will cut tax credits. It just isn't feasible. Reduce them, maybe.

They will probably reduce them, just in time for the roll out of the evil universal credit system

Why is a universal credit system evil?

Surely simplifying the whole thing would make sense.

mum can l suggest you read a little more about it. Simplifying isn't at the route of it. I'm saying this politely. :)

Sorry, it still looks rude.

Gosh I also think that's what they are doing. Apparently child tax credits will be transferred over to universal credit by 2019.
The whole universal credit thing has cost billions, and the IT system has been beset by problems. In short it has been an epic debacle, which we are paying for

betty Yes, and didn't they expect to have the whole country covered by 2017?

I believe so, but they're massively behind schedule.

I think for small business like ourselves, margins can be so tight that we would not be able to put wages up any higher unless we pass that on to the customer in terms of price increases.

Having said that we do not pay minimum wage, I never wanted to run the kind of business that paid employees minimum wage, our clients already pay a premium rate and we already go without wages ourselves as the business owners at times.

I can't speak for other business out there but I do know whatever the government takes away, small business owners cannot always pick up the slack without going under themselves.

I didn't take it as rude Gosh.

I take you to mean that the rollout has been a pain and is still an "inconvenience," and you suspect that it is all part of a plan to ultimately giving you less. But you are not really against simplification in theory.

Oh good mum it didn't matter how l typed it. My suggestion looked bossy.
Simplifying things should be better yes. Unfortunately, from what l've read so far, things look like they will get much worse. Particularly for the most vulnerable claimants, those that can't work ever. They will incorporate many cuts in the new revision.

oh god before anyone thinks I am some awful fat cat business owner paying employees peanuts while driving a merc I AM NOT ...far from it

when i say have employed someone i mean literally paying a friend to help me like once or twice when i have been crazy busy

i shouldn't have even mentioned it tbh ...

my point was that some business just won't be able to afford to up their wages, say i dunno. a small local independent shop or something

On an individual basis I completely agree with you Balls and I think it is great that you pay above NMW.

But in the greater scheme of things, some would argue that what the government is now taking away should never have been given in the first place, and that the responsibility should have stayed with employers rather than the government.

If a business that needs staff goes under because it does not make enough money to pay those staff a proper wage, then the business is simply not viable.

also, when the tories were bandying around the talk of the free 30 hours childcare, pre election, i just KNEW that would be an excuse for cutting tcs and cb

The minimum wage is ludicrous when you look at the cost of basic things. You shouldn't be working a full hour to cover the cost of bread, milk, and cereal for your kids breakfasts! I earn 10.00 p/h and thankfully, due to nobody wanting to do the job, overtime is plentiful. Partner ( works with me ) and I have both said we would happily pay more tax to cover tax credits. If everyone on that rate and above did surely it would make a difference?

I think it's an interesting idea to make the employer responsible for tax credit payments. I'm sure there are some states in America that place the responsibility of unemployment benefits on the (ex) employer. Obviously there are limits on that and payments are for a much shorter length of time.

I presume that like with maternity and pensions already SME's wouldn't be subject to the full cost dependent on size and turnover.

Personally I believe that it's the wrong way round and the cost of living needs to be adjusted to what people earn rather than the other way round. We've managed part socialisation/part capitalism in the past and I really think looking at controlling the costs of housing, transport and utilities would be a huge step. Capping prices would work imho even with private companies remaining as providers. For every business who stropped off there will be one happy to take up the market left available. Paying more does not guarantee value and frankly I reckon the first rule of most products (it's worth what people will pay) should be dictated by the consumer not the other way round.

Of course that would mean finding a government not made up of people with personal interests and investments.

Personally I believe that it's the wrong way round and the cost of living needs to be adjusted to what people earn rather than the other way round

I actually 100% agree there

I have said for ages its not that wages are too low its that the cost of living is too high

not sure what can be done about that though :(

not sure how that works with farmers though? they often don't receive a fair price for their produce. it's only recently that more items are fair trade, we can't start paying them less either..

can we blame supermarket shareholders for this? are they creaming off the profit?

something of a tautology surely!

(I mean the question of whether to blame low wages or high cost of living...what counts is the ratio between the two)

The problem is that much of the food we buy in shops is priced at or below the cost of production.

There are to many cost of living inputs that can't be controlled - particularly global commodities - to control the cost of living rather than ensuring wages reflect inflation and living costs, and are not covertly subsidised by the state.

sadly the 39 hours of free child care wont help me at all as all my children are school aged - my help with childcare comes via tax credits ffs - which they will cut