How is DS going to stand a chance at the 11 plus exam if I can't figure it all out?

[DoItTooJulia]

Aibu? Why is it so difficult to figure it all out! It's like a test for parents, and I think I'm failing!

I have had mixed feelings about the exam, but ds is adamant he wants to give it a go. He's a bright child (he would be, I'm a mumsnetter ) but I don't know if he's superselective bright. I guess there is one way to find out.

So I've said no tuition but I would help him over the summer to prepare for the exam style and timings and stuff because it feels like a good compromise. So I'm googling away, ready to spend £50 on the books and stuff and I'm bamboozled!

What's cem, cgp, cloze? I could spend hundreds on the books and just can't figure out what the fuck to buy. Or download. It's the birmingham exam, so I have figured out its cem, but seriously am I being a struggler?

Any seasoned pros fancy guiding me through this?

It's not in Birmingham. Believe what you like, I'm telling you my experiences. Honestly out of a class of 28 in my year, 18 at least lived in surrounding towns and villages in poverty, they 100% weren't tutored. My parents one of them. My parents can't spell and can't do more than basic adding. They Left school 13/14 years old. I 100% had no help with any schooling ever. We didn't even have paper or spare pens at home to write on, and I had to get from school.

I'm in EXACTLY the same situation. I have a number of reservations about grammar schools and didn't really want my child to sit the exam. But she came home two weeks ago and announced she really wants to. Again she's bright but not necessarily super-bright and there's no way in hell I could afford a tutor.

I have told her I will help her over the summer but don't have a clue what I'm doing (though like you I have a good degree) and feel like it's left rather late.

Watching this thread with interest and if anyone can help me too I'd be massively grateful

OP the acronyms you mention are all different exam companies/boards which set different styles of test.

From a brief internet search, it looks like Birmingham use the CEM test which is set by Durham University. So that's the style your son should practice?

The elevenplus forum online is very helpful and there is this site:-

www.birmingham11plus.co.uk/

which might be good for you?

There is no reason why you can't get him up to speed yourself, as long as you're properly armed and he's determined! Good luck!

If your son isn't clever enough to pass the exam without tutoring, should he be going to the grammar school at all?

It rather pushes out cleverer children from poorer backgrounds, for whom the grammars were presumably designed, doesn't it?

This link gives the basic info.

www.birminghamgrammarschools.org/2016_brochure_20150424104102.pdf

When my daughter applied we followed the advice given there, and also at the Open Day. Some libraries have test paper books. Certainly my local one does. They're also on sale in WH Smiths.

The point is that there are more children clever enough to pass the exam than there are places. If 1000 sit for 100 places, there are probably about 300 who are the right standard (bearing in mind there is a high degree of self selection in deciding to sit the exam). Level of preparation (particularly familiarity and speed) make a big difference as it is about the odd point here and there as to which of those 300 children get the 100 places.

I went to an old style (or Kent style) grammar in the days when everyone sat the exam and the top 25-30% got grammar school places. I do not pretend it is the same as the super-selectives where realistically you need to be top 5% (and even then you might not get in). In the old style grammar if you were top 10-20% you would definitely get in without tutoring. Tutoring might have made a difference to those around the cut off point but not sure if it happened (we sat practice papers in primary so again it was different).

I'm tutoring my DD for 11plus at the moment. Where we are they have to sit 4 one hour papers, 2 of which are CEM. I suspect that in that they are worse off than anywhere else in the country! CEM is tough, and the first time I looked at a practice paper I went into shock, so I wouldn't send a 10 year old into the exam without any preparation. There are no past papers published, but there are loads of useful resources you can buy, which provide questions and answers. I've spent a fortune on these, but hopefully it's a good investment. I've simply learned how to do everything myself, at the same time as teaching my DD. I'm not a teacher or anything; if you are reasonably bright you should be able to do it. My DD has done a couple of mock exams with a local tutor group. Most of the other kids are being tutored through that group, not home tutored like my DD, but she has been doing really well (they tell you where your child has come as against the other children). So it's do-able, but it's quite hard work.

If your son isn't clever enough to pass the exam without tutoring, should he be going to the grammar school at all?

But it's an arms race. If the middle classes en bloc decided to abjure tutors, they would still dominate, because their degrees and teaching qualifications have been giving their children an advantage since birth.

I have a friend who invigilates our local 11+. She has said that every year there are at least a couple of children who turn over the papers and just sit there looking baffled as the format et is so unfamiliar to them.
These children may be very bright but without even some basic prep it's really unlikely they will do well. As a minimum they need to look at past papers and yes some parents spend a fortune on tuition and a lot of private preps do a lot of work to get ready for 11+ so it s an "Arms Race" as someone else said.
You need to get behind your child on this OP or don't let them do it. By that I'm not saying get loads of tutoring but maybe see if there is a mock exam happening locally or similar

If you can't go down the tutor route then you absolutely have to fully aquaint yourself with the system and work through as many past papaers as you possibly can together. These exams are about preparation whatever their format.

To not prepare is akin to sitting a driving test with no formal tuition: most will not be successful.

The fact is that the majority of people use tutors. My DD is bright - has always been in top 1 or 2 in her primary class. But if I sent her into the 11plus exam with no preparation she would not get into grammar. Because everyone else is very well prepared, including those who were bright to start off with. And because an enormous amount of what is in the CEM test is not taught at primary at all, or not by the beginning of Yr 6.

OP- do be very careful that you're practising the right things- the 11+ vqriations hugely from area to area. Once you know what you're facing, I would say that timing is the biggest issue- they have to learn to do a lot in a vey short time. There are Bond books that have timed papers starting with 10 minute ones which ar very helpful.

Artandco- I think you must be talking about a long time ago considering the school leaving age has not been 14 since 1947. And, as we all know, the past is a country where things were very different.

It is currently very unusual for q child from any sort of disadvantqged background to get into a grammar school of any sort. Many have no children who attract Pupil Premium funding at all.

I find it so sad that the grammar school system is still part of our education system. It's unfair to more disadvantaged children and it's clearly an outdated concept.

I think all state schools should be comprehensive and secular and all schools should cater for bright children as well as those needing more help.

I'm so glad my DCs were raised in an area with no grammar schools.

It is currently very unusual for q child from any sort of disadvantqged background to get into a grammar school of any sort.

There have been significant changes to the Birmingham system (and elsewhere: I think it was pioneered in Gloucestershire) to attempt to account for this. The current admission round is the first where it's been in force in Birmingham. The OP should look up the details if their son is eligible for PP.

The CEM was supposed to be un-tutorable, to reduce the disadvantage to poorer children. But it is having the opposite effect - tutors more popular now than ever.

Bert - no my parents should have been at school until 16/18. The didnt as simply stopped going to help their parents. I left school a few years after the millennium so not a considerable time ago.

I agree with the above that it denies those who would have naturally got in had those others not been tutored. I think it's fine to help child as a parent get an idea of the type of questions and layout, but saying a child in June will fail in September without having been tutored is silly. As long as the op shows here child some vague examples and how they answer them, they should be fine if they are naturally at the right level for grammar school

Hi all, sorry for lack of posts:I've had a busy day.

Hi Anon welcome to my boat....want to hop on board? It sounds like we are in the exact same position!

I think the responses show what I think about the exam. I'm not prepared to intensively tutor him and I agree, tutoring to pass the exam doesn't mean he will necessarily fare well at the school, but on the other hand I don't want him to be one of the kids that turns over the paper and doesn't have a clue because we didn't bother to at least prepare him for the exam.

I don't know if he's super bright. The signs are there, but I'm his mother! Naturally I think he's the most wonderful and bright child to have walked the planet. The test will soon tell!

With regards to him getting a place purely because I've prepared him for the exam and therefore denying a truly able child I think that's what is going to happen to my son if I dont prepare him. Most children are heavily tutored for this. Those children might be denying my son a place. But I don't care about who's been tutored and whether those tutored children get a place: I just don't want to disadvantage my son. If he's not bright enough, he's not bright enough. But to send him to sit a test without at least me looking into it and spending some time with him over the summer to prepare would be cruel I think.

Thanks for replying and the couple of hugely helpful PMs!

I had tuition for the 11+ (which I passed) Not sure I would have passed without it because it's nothing like you get taught in school and it was good for practising timings for the tests etc. I would recommend a tutor if you can afford it.

Both my DD's passed 11+, my older helped invigilate for the last couple of years. She says it's shocking how many children turn up to sit the test without ever having seen a paper, who end up bursting in to tears and leaving, how traumatic is that for a child rather than sending them to tutoring, like 95% of the other children will have. At least see if you can get some booster sessions over the summer, my local group does lots, and practice timings. It's more stressful for the parents than the children. Good luck.

My Dd sat the 11+ last year and will start at one of the Birmingham grammar schools in September. She had 9 months of weekly group tuition, with 5 online tests a week as part of the package (KSOL), and she sat 3 mock exams. I, like you, was a bit ambivalent about the whole thing, but my dd really wanted to try and I wanted to support her.
I think that the main things to concentrate on are doing practice papers, understanding some exam techniques, getting to grips with verbal and non verbal reasoning, and a love of reading and good vocabulary really help too.
The week course you have signed him up for should give him a good idea what to expect from the exam. I think you're doing the right thing, with the right attitude. I was really shocked by the obsessiveness and desperation of many of the parents I came across while my dd was going through the 11+ system. Some children are tutored intensively, and from an early age, or attend private school to be trained to the test. Quite a few of my dd's friends were like this but didn't get places in grammar schools. The competition is fierce but it is absolutely doable without tuition, but with lots of practice and a good idea of how to sit an exam.
Have you registered him to sit the exam? There is a closing date for that perhaps in July?
Good luck to your DS.

Thanks fifi I haven't registered him yet but only because I have got the right type of photo of him yet!

I'm glad you're getting the right sense of where I am with all this! Ambivalent is the right word!

Hi OP, we did it last year. I tutored him in English, and we had a maths tutor for one hour a week, for about a year. As someone said, the Bond 10 minute tests were good for speed, and the eleven plus website invaluable for tips on differences in the tests.

My son didn't get a place, its almost ridiculously hard in our area, with about 10 entrants for each place, BUT, it has made him so much more confident at school, and exams hold no worries for him now.

In my sons case he could do the papers, with practice, but could not do them at the speed needed. He never quite got the hang of keeping an eye on the clock etc. Still, no regrets here.

dd is taking the glos exam which is also CEM.

You don't need a tutor.
But you will need to spend some time checking they have everything they need.

I have 4 books, for the 4 sections of the test
Verbal Reasoning
Non Verbal reasoning
English
Maths

We have gone through eg the maths book and checked that she knows all the subjects. eg, she wasn't familiar with some terms 'prime factors' for example threw her. as did Mean Median and Mode.

But because she is fundamentally bright, and the concepts have already been taught, it has been easy to polish up her maths vocab to cover all the bases.
times tables are essential, drill them if necessary, as division facts as well as multiplication facts.

Same with English.
Non Verbal Reasoning is mostly a case of practising, so they get the idea of all the different types there are.

Verbal Reasoning has 21 question types. Many are straightforward - find the synonym or antonym for example, some less so. Get a book, work through, do one page as explanation and then do next page of same type against the clock. Getting their eye in over the little tricks they use is important.
Looking at words which have more than one meaning, and finding synonyms and antonyms is good practice.

Which brings me to the last thing. Speed and exam technique.
He needs to practice working as fast as he can.
Exam technique - things like how long to spend on a question before giving up, to always put an answer (sensible guess) don't leave it blank. To use the answers you have to help (eg, multiplying an even number, the answer can't be an odd number so ignore any answer choices with an odd number)

Over the summer do 1 or 2 'mock' exams, under exam conditions, to practice all of the above (be careful though, if he gets a bad mark, it may be worth not disclosing that to him, it doesn't mean he will do badly on the day)

Finally, stress that grammar schools are great, but so are other schools, and it isn't the end of the world if he doesn't pass, at the same time, you will be proud of him for giving it his best shot.

Op you must register for the exam. I don't think you need a photo do you it is an on-line registration.

It closes soon and if you miss it, you cannot sit the exam

If your son isn't clever enough to pass the exam without tutoring, should he be going to the grammar school at all?

ds did the exam 2 years ago, with minimum tutoring, and mostly done by me. He just scrapped in.
Once he arrived, he has sailed through year 7, unlike some of his class who have had loads of tutoring over several years. The went into maths groups in November and he was in top part of top group.

It isn't that the child needs tutoring, but they really really need exam preparation, and as I said, filling in some of the holes, especially with maths terminology.