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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that Human Rights has a lot to answer for in this obesity related death.

234 replies

meyesmyeyes · 22/06/2015 15:47

A lot people are saying, Well why were people getting him that food? Why weren't they saying No? and why weren't the 'Carers' refusing to give him his takeaways etc.... OK, he would have sworn at them, but he couldn't get out of bed, so wouldn't have been able to harm them for not getting him his junk food.

the human rights act allows him to do what he wants if carers do not comply they are in the wrong and are liable to lose their jobs psychiatrists have to prove they do not have the capacity -- very few people come under this sadly

So surely, this poor man was failed miserably by a system that was supposed to help him?

People should have been in a position where they were able to say 'no' to him. But because of a flawed human rights system, this man has lost his life.

OP posts:
mumofthemonsters808 · 22/06/2015 16:21

Very sad story, it brought a tear to my eye when I saw the photo of a beautiful young boy. I'm not sure the HRA was his demise, I'd say it was a form of mental illness. I read somewhere that his weight had spiralled out of control when his Mum died, if only there had been some help/support available. I'd be mortfied if any of mine were that consumed by grief they ended up obese, it also reminded me of some quote about the greatest gift we can give our children is the ability to live without us. Such a waste of a life, I can not help but feel pity.

MonstrousRatbag · 22/06/2015 16:22

The alternative was for a man who could get get up and leave and had, effectively, no physical freedom to be dictated to in his own home by people who could have ended up imposing all kinds of indignities on him 'for his own good.' That CS Lewis quotatoin is exactly it.

formerbabe · 22/06/2015 16:22

What about smokers, alcoholics, anorexics, drug addicts?

What is the state meant to do? Section them all for their own good? Would be a terrifying nanny state!

SolitaryInTheVoid · 22/06/2015 16:25

Good luck to him, I hope he enjoyed living his choices and the risks he chose, as an adult, to take.

Excellent choices for quotes, LH, but good fucking luck with the case for not controlling individuals' lives for their own good on MN.

fakenamefornow · 22/06/2015 16:25

Any link?

elderflowerlemonade · 22/06/2015 16:25

The carers were not employed to live his life for him though but for personal care.

I think an answer to 'where do we draw the line' might be when somebody needs this personal care though!

tyto · 22/06/2015 16:26

So did he actually invoke the Human rights act in order to be allowed to continue to eat what he wanted?

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 22/06/2015 16:27

He didn't enjoy his life at all. He was unable to get out of bed, unable to wash himself or dress himself, unable to get or hold down a job. I assume he was single and childless. He died at 33 weighing 65 stone. Terribly sad.

This is a Telegraph link.

SaucyJack · 22/06/2015 16:27

It's an interesting point. If we are happy to section anorectics, self-harmers, and those with suicidal intention for their own safety- then why not this poor dude?

Don't blame his carers though. They will just have been doing their job.

fakenamefornow · 22/06/2015 16:28

I read somewhere that his weight had spiralled out of control when his Mum died, if only there had been some help/support available. I'd be mortfied if any of mine were that consumed by grief they ended up obese,

Could it also be that his mum refused to buy him/nagged him to not eat, crap food?

WaywardOn3 · 22/06/2015 16:29

Not seeing how it was the HRA or his carers fault? Unless they force fed him which they didn't.

Did he want to loose the weight as in actually put effort into making a healthier lifestyle. Once you hit the morbidly obese mark it can be a very difficult task to mentally and physically work up the will to seek help.

Original poster
meyesmyeyes · 22/06/2015 16:31

But somebody must have been getting him all that food, storing it in the fridge, cooking it for him.
Answering the door to the takeaways, putting it on plates. Taking it to him.
He was having a full English fried breakfast every morning. Somebody was frying all that food for him. He wasn't doing it himself.
Surely a Carer with any sense of decency would have tried to cook a few vegetables to put on the plate, prepare a bit of salad as a side dish, tried to cook his breakfasts using low fat sprays instead of butter, or used less butter etc. (he wouldn't have known - he was bed bound)

Your human conscience would make you want to help in some way, surely? However small.

I would like to think that at least one of his team of Xarers tried to steer him in the right direction.
Maybe one did.
We will probably never know Sad

OP posts:
Original poster
meyesmyeyes · 22/06/2015 16:32

Carers, not Xarers

OP posts:
2rebecca · 22/06/2015 16:32

A link to which particular obesity related death you are talking about would be helpful. Nothing on UK news on the BBC website so I presume it's a tabloid story.
I agree that "carers" shouldn't have to give severely obese people takeaways. He could phone and arrange deliveries but other people shouldn't have been forced to help him kill himself (whoever he is). There's a point where it becomes assisted suicide.

tyto · 22/06/2015 16:32

The link I've just read says that he did ask for help. He didn't need sectioning, he needed specialist help. This man's situation has nothing to do with the human rights act.

LurkingHusband · 22/06/2015 16:33

a lot of people have pointed to the fact that Human Rights state that he was entitled to have whatever he wanted,

Yes, but a lot of people aren't too bright either ....

fakenamefornow · 22/06/2015 16:37

I'm guessing he could have put a care plan in place listing what food he wanted and amounts, only to be changed at a care plan review, if he had wanted too. He could have put strict limits for himself, that carers had to stick to until the next review, even if he had later said he'd changed his mind before the review. If he didn't do this then I guess he wanted to keep eating the way he was and was well aware of the possible consequences.

OP posts:
cantbelievemyeyes · 22/06/2015 16:39

The HRA has nothing to do with his death. Whether the act exists or not, adults make their own food choices and carers have no right to take those choices away from him. Whether he was in a state of mind to truly make free choices is another matter (saying he chose to eat himself to death/ just eat to much is a very simplistic view).

Is this a quote from some authority/ expert on the subject, or is it an example of a comment from the Daily Mail article?

I'm disappointed (but not surprised) to see the constant references to NHS carers in the press, which seem designed push blame onto them too.

The whole story is incredibly sad, and the comments left by many readers are vile.

2rebecca · 22/06/2015 16:41

A lot of people say they want "help" but are then resistant to any help that means they have to actually do or change something. Help for some people means other people do things for them not they actually have to do something.

Original poster
meyesmyeyes · 22/06/2015 16:42

I would have thought it was common sense.
If you are caring for an obese patient and that patient is trying to lose weight, you don't fry their food in butter or lots of oil.

Somebody was feeding him - all the wrong foods.
There's no getting away with that.

OP posts:
Original poster
meyesmyeyes · 22/06/2015 16:45

Whether he was in a state of mind to truly make free choices is another matter (saying he chose to eat himself to death/ just eat to much is a very simplistic view).

That's what I can't get my head around. Nobody 'chooses' to eat themselves to death.
It was obviously out of his control.

He needed more help (possibly a different type of help) than he was getting.

OP posts:
elderflowerlemonade · 22/06/2015 16:47

Where would you get the low fat spray and vegetables from then?

Confused
ouryve · 22/06/2015 16:48

he wouldn't have known - he was bed bound

That's about half a step from a head tilt. Of course he would have known if his food tasted different or had a different texture. Being unable to walk hasn't robbed him of his mental faculties, you know.

Low fat sprays are fucking vile. I'd know if someone had used one in my food, instead of butter.

elderflowerlemonade · 22/06/2015 16:51

And where would they get it from? That's what I'm mystified about. They have thirty minutes maybe - are they supposed to go to sainsburys in that time and spend their own money? Baffled!