To think it's not the job of teachers...

[Sidalee7]

To show children how to behave?

I was in a cafe earler where at the table next to me there was a 4 year old girl, her dad and her granny. She was being a bit whiney, nothing major but they were talking about how difficult she was (in front of her) and then the dad said "When she starts school it will improve as the teachers will show her how to behave".

AIBU to think this is the parents job - not the teachers?

[Mehitabel6]

Exactly strictly.

Children like boundaries and generally have no trouble at school where they are quite clear. The people in OP were just wrong thinking that it would rub off at home. Lots of children who have excellent behaviour at school are still little devils at home!

[thewavesofthesea]

Someone said that about my son, that school would help to discipline him better then now, and I was really offended! Like I wasn't doing a good enough job. I actually realise I am doing a reasonable job already; he is actually perfectly well behaved at nursery and when with other adults other than us; so he does know how to behave but chooses not to when with us

[ceebelle83]

I second that...lots and lots of children I teach are lovely/really quiet in school but are an alleged nightmare at home (by parents account!)

[WaferInMyCoffee]

With regards to the OP it sounds like a snippet of conversation which isn't necessarily reflective of their entire view - sounds to me like they are struggling with a difficult 4yr old (been there!!) and are hoping that it will improve when she goes to school. Not that they aren't bothering to teach her how to behave because they will leave it to the teachers (have they not bothered for 4 years waiting til the day she can start school??) maybe they feel they have tried everything and it is a slight desperation of "I really hope this improves when she goes to school".

I think that behaviour management is part of a teachers job, but that doesn't mean that parents don't have to teach kids how the behave. But I suspect in the instance of the OP it is just something taken out of context. I say this because I have said similar to DH in moments of my 4yr old being a little difficult - "argh roll on September when the teachers can sort her out!!" (Never in front of her, mind you) I don't mean, I am not bothering to discipline my child and i will leave it to her teacher, just that I am hoping school has a positive effect, as it does on so many kids, and this is made possible by good teachers.

(My son this year has been like a different kid because he has an amazing teacher who understands him. I've not left it to her to sort him out, but a happy by product of him being in her class is that he is doing so much better emotionally and behaviourally so well as academically. So teachers do have a positive influence on behaviour, how could they not in their position?)

[Sidalee7]

It was an overheard snippet but the dad was incredibly annoying, he veered between gushing over her and then snapping at her to sit still.

At one point he said "everyone else in this cafe is thinking how silly you are" and I REALLY wanted to say No, they are thinking how silly YOU are.

[WaferInMyCoffee]

I think maybe you'd hate me sidalee7 as yesterday I was in a cafe with Dd and I said "there are lots of others people in here trying to enjoy their lunch , none of them want to hear you being silly" haha, you'd probably think I am really annoying too.

At least they took the kid out I guess. That is what I console myself with when I am being a terrible parent, at least I am trying to do nice things even when it all goes hideously wrong

[Sidalee7]

Waferinmycoffee - I have said the same thing to my dc's! But this guy was doing it in a humiliating way. The girl was then crying and he was goading her.

In retrospect I should have moved tables.

[Astrid28]

I don't feel that it's the teachers job to show children how to behave, so that was worded badly, but I definitely think the school environment reinforces what children's are hopefully taught at home.

I've noticed several reception aged children among my friends who are noticeably calmer in social situations since they started school.

They seem more patient and have a hint of maturity that DS has yet to master despite my best efforts (crosses fingers that September will work this magic for us too!).

If it doesn't, I certainly wouldn't be blaming the teacher, I'd feel bad that my son caused them problems in class and double my efforts at home.

[Yarp]

Agree with you OP

Sometimes I hear people saying, of a child 'She'll get a shock when she goes to school'

Well Yes and No - actually, sometimes it's the rest of the class that gets the schlock, and the parents who have not bothered to try to set boundaries on behaviour in the belief someone else will do it become all defensive and difficult to engage in following through on the discipline being taught in school

[Yarp]

shock not schlock

[Yarp]

Astrid28

I agree with you.

[Yarp]

mijas

Also agree with you.

The expectations of children at school are just sometimes not developmentally appropriate

[AmberFool]

I think it's more unreasonable to expect 4 and 5 year olds to sit down and be quiet all day at school. It's not the best way for them to learn and is actually pretty cruel. It is convenient and cost efficient though

You obviously know all about how reception works.

[larrygrylls]

It is both teachers and parents jobs to model good behaviour and show children how to behave. However, parents cannot abdicate their role as, ultimately, they are with their children far far more of the time over a year.

There is far too much sensitivity to upsetting children shown at the moment, leading to very entitled (and, ultimately, unhappy) children. Parents need to set clear boundaries and enforce them when necessary. In addition, there is this idea that children cannot be quiet and listen for any period of time. They (generally) can if they really want to and this is an invaluable life skill that parents can teach them. Obviously the amount of time varies according to age and individual character, but parents (and teachers) should be aiming to extend this period rather than accept that, 'in the internet age' (usual excuse given), it is ridiculously short.

[LuluJakey1]

We have teenagers at our school who don't know what very basic table manners are- they can't use cutlery properly because they rarely eat food they don't just pick up with their fingers. They use a spoon for everything that they can't pick up - mashed potato, vegetables, pasta, curry. Forks are used occasionally for chips or as below. They throw metal cutlery away with their left overs into the bin rather than touch it and put it in the cutlery dish. They put bags and coats on the table while they eat. They use a fork with their fist around it to stab a piece of pizza or meat and pin it down then hack at it with a knife used the same way to try and cut it.
I am not saying all of our students are like that but it isn't just one or two.

[BarbarianMum]

I think that if we want a society when children enter education at 2 or 3 and mainstream schools at 4 then yes, teachers are going to have to take more of a role in teaching children how to behave. The idea that every 3 year old is going to be capable of toileting themselves, dressing, sitting quietly, waiting their turn to speak -just so they are 'school ready' - is ludicrous tbh.

And as for

"'please make sure they are out of nappies, no longer using dummies, able to visit the toilet themselves, can recognise their own name and hang their coat up, can use a chair appropriately'"

-why don't they just come out and state "no children with disabilities or developmental delays wanted here thank you so much" Oh yeah, because that'd be illegal, that's why. So maybe more helpful to ask parents of children who can't do these things to contact the school so a care plan can be put in place.

[thisnotsodarkevening]

I've heard people say about another person's child that 'she'll have to stop that nonsense when she starts school' or 'she won't get away with that when she goes to school', but a parent saying it does sound like he doesn't understand his own responsibility in relation to his child.

[angstridden2]

Having taught in a primary school for more years than I care to remember, I can remember a number of children who were in nappies when starting nursery and several who were in nappies throughout infant school. They had recognised SN/developmental delays and were supported by designated staff.

However I also remember an increasing number of children starting nursery in nappies with parents saying they weren't ready for toilet training; remarkably the nursery staff managed to get them out of nappies within a few weeks through consistent and very hard work! Certainly had an impact on the attention they could give the other children though.

Strange that most children without SN or developmental delays seemed to be out of nappies around two years in the quite recent past; now children 'aren't ready' until around three in many cases.

[ohtheholidays]

My poor hubby always got this.Police Officer and one idiot in the family constantly said if you don't behave I'm ringing your Uncle(we're great uncle and great auntie)not related to the mother(who was the moron that kept using the threat) and he will take you away in his Police Car and stick you in a Cell.

Poor DH this was years before we got married and they're on my side of the family.

I've had it a lot with teaching in schools,I don't like it when they say it to the child in front of me,as I've always been the kind of teacher that children all saw as one of they're friends.Worked in some really bad areas so the children trusting me completely was always a real plus and something I was proud off.

For a lot of the children I was the only adult they trusted and the only adult that they felt they knew that would protect them from harm caused by the one's that were supposed to love them.

It was different if a parent came to me without the child/children and asked for my advice about any trouble they were having at home with behavior.In that situation I've always been more than happy to offer advice and help.

[APlaceOnTheCouch]

Teachers do show DCs how to behave in school. They have to because school is a different environment from home So yes, DCs should know how to behave in general but they still have to learn the rules of the school.

I also don't think that parents who are discussing their DC's behaviour and making the point that school will be different, are necessarily lax. Lax parents wouldn't be acknowledging the bad behaviour at all.

[CalmYoBadSelf]

angstridden I had a conversation with an early years professional recently who said nurseries/schools in our area were complaining about increasing numbers of little ones who have not been taught to sit at a table to eat or to use a knife and fork, presumably at home they are snacking, eating finger food or eating in front of the tv or computer although I can't be sure. We all know that these children are very young and will not all grasp these skills instantly or be able to be perfect all the time but it is concerning that this problem of lack of "training" exists

I agree that these things should be a partnership between schools and parents although I do think it is important for parents to realise that behaviour that they may excuse at home can have an impact on other pupils so may not be quite as acceptable in a classroom

[Marynary]

I think that once children are school age it is both the parents and teachers job to make sure children behave appropriately. I don't think I would take the dad's sentence to mean that he thinks only teachers should "teach children how to behave". He might just be acknowledging that he has done a poor job and someone else would be better at it.

[Yarp]

Calm

Yes.

Regarding your second paragraph, I think that's a problem with permissive, often MC parents.