AIBU to think someone who has killed while drink driving should be tried for murder/manslaughter?

[ihatesoftplay]

My friend was killed by a drink driver just over 18 months ago and he (the driver) was sentenced to 6.5 years in jail and banned from driving for 10 yesterday. "Driving dangerously at excessive speed and causing death."

He murdered her, using his car as a weapon. I cannot see the justice in this sentence.

I appreciate my emotions may be clouding my view, so I probably am BU, but I'm interested in your thoughts...

No matter how reckless and irresponsibly someone might behave, killing someone accidentally whilst acting like a twat is a different offence to killing someone deliberately.

I imagine it makes very little difference to the dead person.

Why are you so angry with me, TTWK? Have you killed someone in an accident, and as a result are taking the thread very personally?

Just for information, drink-driving only causes about 10% of road fatalities. "Failed to look properly" causes 20%. So if we want to improve road safety it is the careless and the "momentary lapse of concentration" drivers that need to be shamed, not the drunkards. (As well as the drunkards, possibly)

Sorry, i think i've read that wrong. 20 per cent of the 65 per cent caused by driver error.

www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/road-safety/8702111/How-do-accidents-happen.html

I am sorry for the loss of your friend.

Death by drink driving is not murder as the criminal never planned to kill. I feel that 6.5 year sentence is about right. Sentencing is about rehabilation and protecting the public rather than revenge. Should a drink driver serve longer in jail than a rapist, someone who had committed GBH or a true murderer? A drink driver may well be remorseful and a different person in 6 years time. (Or even 3)

Sorry for your heart breaking loss.
And ynbu. It should be classed as manslaughter or yes even murder. They plan to drink and drive a car which is highly likely to kill someone. That to me is premeditated and premeditation=murder. That's not my humble opinion. That is fact.
Same with speeding, they know speeding can kill.
6 years for someone's life and the lives destroyed with it. Is beyond an insult, and they won't even get a driving ban for life.
Yes they get their lives bsck, the victims don't nor do their family and friends

Level 1 death by dangerous driving (which includes drink or drug driving) carries a maximum term of 14 years imprisonment. Do you not feel that this is sufficient ?

That to me is premeditated and premeditation=murder. That's not my humble opinion. That is fact

It's really not fact and anyone with any background in criminal law will tell you that.

But if you plan on killing someone it is murder, right. No arguments there.
So if you get behind the wheel intoxicated you know that can kill someone

Murder is a crime of specific intent and knowing that you might kill someone does not satisfy that intent. It is difficult to prove that intent to a jury beyond reasonable doubt. You would have to completely abandon hundreds of years of statute and case law and completely redefine the legal parameters of murder
Death by dangerous requires no intent and if someone is drink driving and kills someone else then it is extremely easy to prove. It carries almost the same sentencing powers as murder and manslaughter as a lfe sentence tariff is generally around 15 years.

The issue is not what offences a driver is charged with but the way that judges are applying their sentencing powers (generally far too leniently imho)

Imustgodown-Why are you so angry with me, TTWK? Have you killed someone in an accident, and as a result are taking the thread very personally?

No I haven't. And why did you accuse another poster of saying it was OK to kill someone whilst dazzled by the sun, when they never said anything of the kind? If you think misquoting other posters strengthens your argument, you are wrong.

It should be classed as manslaughter or yes even murder. They plan to drink and drive a car which is highly likely to kill someone. That to me is premeditated and premeditation=murder. That's not my humble opinion. That is fact.

Not only do you need to look up the definition of murder, you also need to look up the definition of fact.

Do you really see death by drink driving ad comparable with the murder of Sara Payne or poor little James Bulgar? I don't see how it's constructive to compare death by drink driving to murder.

To put it into context how can you justify imprisoning a drink driver who has killed someone longer than a judge chose to imprison the scum who murdered baby P. Tracey Conelly is far worse than any drunken driver, yet she only was given 6 years.

But if you plan on killing someone it is murder, right. No arguments there.
So if you get behind the wheel intoxicated you know that can kill someone

Because planning to kill someone, and doing something illegal and stupid that might kill someone but probably won't, are two different things.

Every time I do 75mph on the motorway I know I'm doing something illegal, and it's a premeditated act, and it might end up killing someone. But that's not murder. It may well be causing death by dangerous driving.

IF you make driving while drunk the serious crime then people will stop doing it

The penalties for drink drive and the repercussions for most people are already massive. Automatic ban, massive fines, the repercussions for many people's jobs of not being to drive (either commuting or work), the amount of jobs that require a clean driving licence, repercussions for future car insurance, the shame of having a DIC conviction. They still don't stop some people doing it. The people that continue to drink driv would not be put off by longer sentences, in the same way that people have not been put off burgling houses because the sentencing guidelines have been made harsher.

What puts me off drink driving ? Losing my job (police so deffo would lose job) and knowing that i could kill someone. "i might go to prison" would not enter my head when deciding whether or not to drive the car

Someone who is drunk doesn't think and certainly is not EXPECTING to kill someone. A drunk driver maybe selfish, but not diliberately evil. The victim's death is a consequence of someone being drunk rather than an well planned an malicious act.

I don't believe that harsher punishments would have an effect. Or punishments would have to so extreme, that they would be worse than the problem of drinking driving. (Ie. execution by firing squad for anyone who fails a breathylser test. How much does it matter than someone might innocently fail a breathylser test due to a medical problem?)

I think the problem is that the law is not applied evenly. Several years ago my cousin's DD (age 13) was killed by a drunk driver (he mounted the pavement) he had already caused an accident earlier by shooting a red light but had driven on. He served no prison time (suspended, family dependent on him etc...) and came out of the court laughing and raising his fists. My family could not believe it. My cousin was in the security services and had a gun - he desperately wanted to shoot the driver and asked for it to be taken away. Two years later the driver ran someone over again and got 6 months this time.

If he had shown remorse I think my cousin could have begun to forgive him but his attitude caused so much extra pain and resentment.I definetly think a jail term would have helped the parents recover. My cousin and his wife are absolutely broken people and have emigrated to remove themselves from reminders and temptation.

I also had a friend who was involved in an accident where a family of 4 died. It was unclear who was responsible, so she was not prosecuted. She desperately wanted to be punished though and is also a shadow of her former self.