to think that in general, working for a small business is crap

[EvoraEvora]

out of friends and family, I have never encountered one person who hasn't had problems working for a small business ( by small I mean the set up of owners+ less than 10 workers.)

thoughts?

I disliked it. The office mood depended on the owner's mood. There was no opportunity for progression. No HR or equivalent. If 4 or 5 out of the 10 people were out at meetings it was quiet and boring, with every phone conversation audible.

I had no problems with holidays, but the two saleswomen weren't allowed to be off at the same time as each other, which caused arguments on Christmas Eve and during the summer hol period.

There was one woman who refused to learn to use a computer (this was 1995 and she'd been there since the early 1980s) and no one had the guts to deal with that.

Depends entirely on the bosses. I've worked for one where the owners expected everyone to be as invested as they were and it was a nightmare.

I'd agree with expat.

DH worked for large companies before transferring to a small business and then opening his own.

He learned valuable things from the small business he was employed in but we both agreed that the boss expected him to be as invested in the business as he was.

Fast-forward a number of years and I sometimes have to remind DH when he's behaving like his ex-boss. Not as bad, but sometimes...

we both agreed that the boss expected him to be as invested in the business as he was

Sorry I meant to add 'and that was unreasonable.'

DH worked for lots of small firms in the years after he left the Army. He was used to having a lot asked of him and to following barked orders but those small firms nearly finished him.

All had the attitude that if you don't like it you can leave, expected to pay the bear minimum and for him to ask "how high?" every time they said jump, regardless of whether the request was halfway reasonable.

He works hard and contentiously and he was committed to the work, but the level of commitment they expected and the threats if it wasn't forthcoming immediately were ridiculous.

At the time, it made me appreciate my job at one of the big banks, where most of my colleagues thought we were treated badly and DH appreciates the big company he works for now.

My dh worked for a small family company for ten years, no training or promotion opportunities.
When he gave his notice, the three brothers than ran it didn't speak to him if they could help it until he left as they took it personally.
I worked in retail, the manager was a bullying moody nightmare but the owner thought he was brilliant and wouldn't have a word said against him.
Again no HR to approach so I ended up leaving.

My DH has and runs a small company. There are about 12 in the office, more off site.
DH has been very frustrated as he feels he is more than fair and yet people don't seem to appreciate it.
He is very relaxed with leave, in fact he gives the staff extra leave between Christmas/New Year, so they don't have to work these days and are paid fully, on top of their allowed AL.
He organises staff nights out,dinner etc,Christmas party all fully paid by him.
If anyone needs extra time off/leave early etc he always accommodates.
He says 1 person thanked him for the days at Christmas and the Christmas party.
They have a state of the art office, computers etc. I doubt they would get all he gives anywhere else, yet they don't seem to give a hoot.
My FIL also ran his own business,"Where there are staff there are problems" is one of his favourite sayings.

I had a really bad experience at a small firm. Staff threatened with having to pay a customers car parking fine, deducting hours from pay in temper, calling me at home because one employee's wage was a few pence different to last pay (it was due to a change of tax code!) and advertising employee's jobs on a regular basis 'to keep them on their toes'!
Bloody awful place to work, it was so crap I handed in my notice without having a job to go to.
I am working for a small company again, but it is a totally different working environment they are a lovely bunch of people.

Totally depends on individual set up - can be a great way to learn loads and get to a senior position quickly and/or to get a stake in the business

Equally there are businesses like the one my Sil and BIL run were its all about them making money for them regardless of corners cut and they employ whoever is cheapest and don't care about any employee development also as its a family business so no one other than a family member is ever going to make any progress in the business - they also make all the staff take holidays when they want there own holidays whether it suits the staff or not and dock pay if staff cannot get to work in bad weather conditions despite there factory being quite rural and difficult to get to and them laying on no transport at those times to help staff. Unsurprisingly they have high staff turnover - to be fair they are running a business to make money which is the whole point of a business - and they are always ok with me - but they genuinely have absolutely no interest or care for their employees at all - a business is just a vehicle to make them as individual money

I think it's all about the individual circumstances but personally I would never work for a family run business unless it was large and/ or I was one of family as no real point

I have worked for many large corporate companies and I personally prefer working in my current role with a small company. While there are certain benefits to working for big companies, I found the general inflexibility and tiered management structures totally frustrating. The endless meetings about meetings and rubbish initiatives from above is enough to drive you insane. With a smaller company you get to cut through all the red tape. If someone has an idea it is possible to make it happen without years worth of meetings and analysis. If I want a holiday or an hour off to go to a school assembly, I don't have to fill out a holiday form or go to HR, I speak to the boss and we work it out like grown ups.

Agree with some pps, pros and cons to both. I've worked for three small companies and one corporation. I got much more job satisfaction from the small companies (until I didn't anymore and moved on), progressed quickly, got stuff done quickly and found them far more sociable. I'm still in touch with pretty much everyone from those companies. Corporate life was far more tedious in terms of actual day to day work but I was better paid for less commitment and had company benefits.

Also having been made redundant twice in the last 10yrs, one small company and one corporation, I got a FAR better package from the corporation.

123jump, if employees really do react in such a negative way to your dh's managment there MUST be something hes doing to upset them. multiple employees dont just get the hump for no reason.

I once worked for a small retailer and one day they just turned up and said they were closing that day, so I was effectively left unemployed.
I know this can happen in large retail companies, but you usually have a bit of warning to start looking for something else. Bosses in small firms can also be tricky with leave etc. I prefer working for larger corporations where you have HR and usually more employment rights.

BettyCatKitten that's what DH's former boss did. It was retail too. DH had luckily left at that point but four staff were left without jobs or any package at 5.55pm on Friday night and suppliers were left with debts. Some suppliers saw the writing on the wall and weren't hit so hard but some of them were and may have even gone under.

He'd been planning it for at least a year. He was protected and didn't feel the least bit guilty. In fact, I think he congratulated himself on being a clever chap.

I'm not saying that this doesn't happen in larger companies but there is definitely a mindset with people like DH's former boss that makes them think they can do whatever they want because they are an 'entrepreneur'.

Cunt.

As long as governments talk about the backbone of the economic recovery being small to medium sized businesses and 'wealth and job creators' while undermining employment rights this will continue to happen.

Oh, and that buy-to-let dream too.

I've gone from a nice public services job to working in a small business - just me and the two owners. There are pros and cons.
I like how flexible they are - if i want to be off, they let me, even at late notice - no needing 1 month in advance. They've let me change my hours to cover school day - i now work 10-3pm without a lunch break which suits me as i can get more hours in and suits them as i'm there to cover lunch - and there's no health and safety or HR saying you need to have a break if you work over 4 hours. They gave me a bonus at christmas, and when i went on holiday they bunged a bit extra in my wages. They've also just given me a pay rise - just like that without any pay award having to be agreed.
On the downside, they are moody and stressed. They have both made me cry and have talked to me like shit at times. I've had to put the hoover round, put the rubbish out and make the tea. I don't have a pension (yet, they will have to i think when it comes in), i get a totally rubbish amount of holidays, I don't get sick pay and I expect they could turn round at any time and get rid of me or sell up themselves and leave me jobless.
However, for now, I like the honesty of it. The interview was great :-)

EvoraEvora, there are 3 or 4 people that have worked with him since near the start. They are content. It seems to be the newer younger ones who think they are entitled to all these 'perks'.

I have worked for large company and small ones. Both have pro's and cons. I think discussing it is difficult because generally the rule is if you don't like it then you have to leave. And that applies to both.

Good point limited. I was left with no package and wasn't even paid for my last weeks work. I was a lone parent at the time with 2 dependent children, luckily my parents helped me out with money for food and rent. Not everyone has that back up.
Try telling the DWP that you've just been made redundant with no formal letters/proof and the owners wouldn't answer their phone to them to clarify.
Luckily I was offered a job the following week, but couldn't get a reference from former boss as he wouldn't reply to calls/letters/email.
I've never worked for a small firm since.

I find the biggest red flag is the owners' children being involved in management. The SMEs I've worked in have ranged from excellent to awful, but if there is an arrogant little shit about they're never good. I had to tell one boss, who I got on well with, that his younger boy would need jaw surgery pretty soon. The poor man just sat there slumped, and murmured something about dealing with it. I think he sold the business to the management in the end.
Tbh, I prefer agency work. Paid by the day, don't have to play politics, and because you can't coast you have to keep on top of your game.

DH runs a small business. If you call keeping all his employees in work during a recession, giving them at least a 3% increase each year, a £2k bonus each year, letting them pop to the doctors/dentist without taking leave, and generally treating them bloomin' well, then working for a small business is crap

In return, they giving him loyalty and go out of their way to help him. Last person to leave was a young lad who DH put through college and paid 3 times minimum wage, who got his qualifications, then left. That was 3 years ago. Everyone else has been there at least 7...

However, when we are short staffed, that can be hard. One employee should really be off sick this week. He's in work, didn't want to let the side down as there were so few in.

I think problems can arise when businesses start to grow. DH set up a partnership with a couple of colleagues when they all got made redundant some years ago, after about 10 years of steady business things started to really grow so they took on staff one at a time and now have about 15. Of the directors, only one has any previous management experience and DH struggles with that side of things, he much prefers the technical side. On the whole things are fine, but there have been one or two employees over the years that have been unhappy and it has caused problems, the directors try really hard to do their best by the employees but it hasn't always been easy.

Out of all my uni and school friends the ones that have worked at small businesses have done better career and money wise.

I love working for a small company. there's 3 of us and 2 Saturday girls. Yes we have to work extra and days off may not happen but we're like 3 friends and help each other out. I'd never go back to a big company.