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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think a tax dodger should NOT be celeb dad of the year?

50 replies

shipinabottle · 12/06/2015 11:10

Gary Barlow has won celeb dad of the year.
I think its disgusting people think he is such a great role model and a great father.
He beat David Beckham who is always pictured with his children but I don't think I've ever seen one photo of Barlow with his children.

OP posts:
Sallyingforth · 12/06/2015 12:35

YWBU to think that anything with the word celeb has any value or meaning whatsoever.
People should be treated for what they are and what they do, not because of some trashy label.
And generally speaking, 'good' parents would not want to call media attention to themselves or their family.

PtolemysNeedle · 12/06/2015 12:46

YABU because it's a bollocks meaningless award that doesn't deserve your irritation, and also because GB didn't do anything wrong. He will have paid a shitload of tax, way more than many people ever earn, so I really can't find the energy to be bothered about the fact that he could have paid a bit more.

TheChandler · 12/06/2015 12:49

But you only pay the higher rate of tax on the bit that falls into the higher bracket, so how would you have been worse off?

Either because you fall into that bracket where, due to the mysteries of the system, you really would be financially worse off. Or because its not worth the extra stress, worry, effort and hours to get slightly less than half of any pay rise (also including NI).

As for Gary Barlow, he's probably paid much more tax then me or the OP and legally avoided tax. I am assuming that the OP sets a more sterling example by not claiming her personal allowance (if at all possible) and ensures she works in a very highly paid job, so that she pays more tax.

It reminds me of a very socialist Scottish MSP who claimed only a proportion of his MSP's salary. Which conveniently kept him below the 40% threshold (and also meant he didn't have to self declare any other less mainstream earnings). But he was a "good" socialist...

MrsToddsShortcut · 12/06/2015 12:51

Whither is the Orange One's award for Father of the Year? After all, he really really loves his kids. Much more than Gary, I'm sure.

TheFlis12345 · 12/06/2015 15:02

To quote my favourite tweet on the subject at the time "To all those people saying this tax avoidance is not illegal" - well, neither is 'being a dick' But no-one will ever thank you for it."

RedKite1985 · 12/06/2015 15:06

He loves getting the award

RedKite1985 · 12/06/2015 15:07

Posted too soon lol

to think a tax dodger should NOT be celeb dad of the year?
BullshitS70 · 12/06/2015 15:18

nob

needmorespace · 12/06/2015 17:27

Wow, so avoiding tax is not wrong. Perhaps not legally, but morally it's questionable.

I paid tax on my earnings before I bought Gary Barlow's cds. And he should pay tax on the money he earned from them.

Yes, he may pay more tax in terms of figures than I do. But I bet as a percentage of his income he doesn't.

Tom Fletcher and Buzz are gorgeous - thank you to the pp who linked to it - it has made my day.

AmyElliotDunne · 12/06/2015 17:35

The tax system explained using a beer analogy:-

Suppose that once a week, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to £100.If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this..

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay £1.
The sixth would pay £3.
The seventh would pay £7.
The eighth would pay £12.
The ninth would pay £18.
And the tenth man (the richest) would pay £59.
So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every week and seemed quite happy with the arrangement until, one day, the owner caused them a little problem. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your weekly beer by £20.” Drinks for the ten men would now cost just £80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free but what about the other six men? The paying customers? How could they divide the £20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share? They realized that £20 divided by six is £3.33 but if they subtracted that from everybody's share then not only would the first four men still be drinking for free but the fifth and sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fairer to reduce each man's bill by a higher percentage. They decided to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.

And so, the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (a100% saving).
The sixth man now paid £2 instead of £3 (a 33% saving).
The seventh man now paid £5 instead of £7 (a 28% saving).
The eighth man now paid £9 instead of £12 (a 25% saving).
The ninth man now paid £14 instead of £18 (a 22% saving).
And the tenth man now paid £49 instead of £59 (a 16% saving).
Each of the last six was better off than before with the first four continuing to drink for free.

But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings. "I only got £1 out of the £20 saving," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, "but he got £10!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a £1 too. It's unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!"

"That's true!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get £10 back, when I only got £2? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison, "we didn't get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!" The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next week the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important - they didn't have enough money between all of them to pay for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is how our tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy and they just might not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible

AmyElliotDunne · 12/06/2015 17:39

I'm on a low income and have no hope of paying 40% tax im the near future, but if I did, I'd be paying exactly what was required of me and not a penny more.

And as far as dads go, I think a sleb who doesn't parade his kids around like fashion accessories is likely to be putting his DCs first rather than his column inches.

Barbeasty · 12/06/2015 17:46

An awful lot of people on this site will participate in a tax avoidance scheme.

It's called child care vouchers.

Anybody take part in their employer's cycle to work scheme where you buy a bike and pay it back through your salary? That's tax avoidance.

Give to charity directly from your salary- the scheme where it's done before tax? That's tax avoidance.

Yarp · 12/06/2015 17:53

RedKite

That is very very cute. Cheered me right up.

Barlow - PPPft!!

Yarp · 12/06/2015 17:54

Celebrity Dad of the Year just means 'reasonably good-looking dad who isn't actually abusive', doesn't it?

ShakesBootyFlabWobbles · 12/06/2015 18:03

Childcare vouchers are 100% NOT tax avoidance. They are tax planning, a world of difference.

Here you go:

Tax planning - brings about a tax saving and is completely what the law intends (ISA, CCV, pension contributions tax breaks). Tax law and HMRC completely support people/businesses doing this.

Tax avoidance - an unintended tax saving that is legal but not within the spirit of the law. There is a list of known avoidance schemes that you must declare to HMRC if you are using them. Pushed too far and it will become...

Tax abuse - structuring that includes transactions within the law but only there to create conditions to create the tax saving and serving no true business purpose. HMRC will pursue in the tribunals - the leading VAT abuse case is the Halifax Building Society

Tax evasion - intention to deceive tax revenues and illegal.

If you ever read tax tribunal transcripts (snooze) or High Court, Supreme Court or the European Court of Justice transcripts, you will know that the law allows business and taxpayers to structure their business in tax efficient manners. The law does not allow abuse or evasion.

peltata · 12/06/2015 18:34

sleepwhenidie surely salary sacrifice into a pension scheme gets you below 100k keeping your tax the same plus building up your pension pot?

peltata · 12/06/2015 18:39

One tax scheme involved here was for the celebs' company lending them money - a loan was free from tax - but there was no date on repayment, probably when they popped their clogs! This scheme was being closed in on by the HMRC so people pulled out rather than go to court.

The complexity of the tax system means loopholes and unintended consequences are almost infinite. Now, why is it so complicated...

WaferInMyCoffee · 12/06/2015 19:13

I didn't even know Barlow had kids. But then again i have no interest in the man. Dull!!

Moomintroll85 · 12/06/2015 19:22

Celeb dad of the year?

This is a thing?

Confused
AntiHop · 12/06/2015 20:13

Yanbu. He shouldn't be regarded as a role model.

HugoBear · 12/06/2015 20:24

Barlow's kids are probably some sort of tax efficient vehicle.

I bet they are all directors of Gary Barlow Entertainment Ltd, registered in the Cayman Islands.

MayPolist · 12/06/2015 20:26

The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy and they just might not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

The fundamental flaw in your argument amy is that whatever the higher earners do that earns them a lot, there will be a queue of people waiting to take their place if they go.So for example suppose Gary barlow decided he wanted to pay no tax and therefore went to live on the tax free haven of Mars.Would people spend less on concerts amd downloads? No there would be plenty more pretty boys waiting to break through and take his place.

Binkybix · 12/06/2015 20:54

I thought that he actually had been found guilty of evasion and had to pay it back?

KingJoffreyLikesJaffaCakes · 12/06/2015 21:00

You'd think Peter Andrex would get it.

He really loves his kids.

Wink

You know Rock Morranis of Little Shop Of Horrors awesomeness? When his wife died he quit Hollywood to become a full time dad. Proper decent bloke.

ShakesBootyFlabWobbles · 14/06/2015 22:10

Not evasion binky or he would be going to jail. HMRC are saying avoidance/abuse (see my earlier post), the investment advisers would dispute this, likely saying it a genuine business investment.

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