To be concerned about BF's relationship with his ex?

[PeggyTheClothesHorse]

They separated 2 years ago and I've been with him about a year. Not sure if it's relevant but she left him. I was not the ow, we met months after their split. They have one DC together and she has also moved on to a new relationship.

So onto the problem: I'm a little uncomfortable with their relationship as co parents. BF is a good father and on the one hand I really admire how they have managed to stay amicable. However, I feel like a lot of the time he bends over backwards to please her. He does a lot of swapping and changing of their contact arrangements at her request, usually so she can go to an event, or go out. I'm never consulted on this, even when it necessitates a change of our plans. There are other minor things which I won't go into but the overall feeling I get is that he panders to her somewhat whilst moaning to me about how 'demanding' she is.

On Mother's Day, she requested he buy her a particular brand of (IMO) expensive jewellery from their DC. As someone who doesn't wear jewellery, I don't really get it. I also get no presents at all from my ex on behalf of our DCs so it seemed very extravagant to me. However, I didn't let on my feelings as I felt it was none of my business. Then on his birthday, I know he was disappointed as she didn't get him the inexpensive item he'd requested but instead a few bits of tat that his DC confessed his ex had chosen.

It's her birthday next month and again she has requested an expensive piece of jewellery from the DC which my bf is to buy on their behalf. Bf has commented on this but I know he will still go along with her wishes and buy it.

I'm not sure if my own situation is clouding my feelings on this or whether I am right to feel a bit miffed about this. I suppose I'm just worried as we are talking about moving in together soon and ultimately these expensive gifts will then come out of family money. I worry that he will always put his ex's needs above ours as a blended family and it's leaving me feeling reticent to move to the next stage with my BF who would also like us at some point to have a DC of our own. However, I'm ready to be told I ABU and if so will keep my feelings to myself.

YANBU

I would expect to be told when arrangements were being changed. It is very unfair to just presume that you will be ok about it. Would his ex be difficult if he ever said no to her?

The buying expensive gifts is just ridiculous. It needs to stop and I certainly wouldn't move in with a man who was buying his ex designer jewellery.

Tell your DP how you feel and explain that you can't possibly move in with him because you don't feel that he has appropriate boundaries in place yet.

YANBU I'm sorry but she's taking the piss.

The access is annoying but sadly unless there is a strict court order in place she HAS to adhere to you may have to live with it. Unfortunately the parent with custody has more rights and many sadly do abuse this. He should be consulting you though before he changes things which mess up your plans and he shouldn't be saying yes to her everytime she asks something stupid. There has to be room for give and take here.

The gift buying thing is very one sided. If they had always both bought nice gifts from the DC for the other maybe but it seems they don't. HE buys nice gifts and she buys cheap crap. She has a new partner you say? Then this new partner should be the one buying the nice jewellery! I would say in future he needs to buy a gift of small token value and let his DC choose it as well as a card. That is all that should be expected just something which the child has chosen. That is surely the point of getting an ex to buy these things in cases like this. If she moans let her moan.

I would discuss your concerns with him and see if compromise can be reached. The gift buying thing certainly needs to be toned down hugely and he needs to be more respectful of plans you've already made. If he can't agree to this you need to think about if you can cope with the situation long term before you make any decisions about your future.

Thanks everyone for your helpful replies. It has really helped me to clarify in my own head what my issues are with this set up and also where my own boundaries lie. It also gave me the courage to raise the issues with him.

A pp hit the nail on the head when they said that jewellery is a very personal present. I very much agree and think this is why I feel so uncomfortable about it. It's the kind of gift reserved for very important people such as a bf/gf. I know that I would feel very odd accepting such a thing from my ex. My bf made the point that it was from the DC and not him but I explained how I felt this was not the case since this was a direct request from her, fulfilled by him and completely by-passing their DC which I felt was the whole point of gift buying on behalf of the DC - so they could feel good about choosing something for their parent.

My other issue is the lack of reciprocation. I agree a degree of flexibility is good and I also have that set up with my own ex but with them, it's very one sided. For example, we were looking to take the children away for a weekend and found a very cheap deal for a weekend that falls when we don't have the DC. This is months away so I suggested we ask our exes to swap. He wouldn't even entertain the idea so we've booked another weekend at twice the cost.

I do think many of his issues stem from him fearing the power she has. She has made threats in the past to stop him from seeing his DC if he didn't do what she wanted. I explained to him that it was very hard for me to see her be so difficult towards him and then watch him pander. It would be one thing if he was happy with the set up but I know he's not because he frequently complains and then bows to her whims anyway. The lack of firm boundaries worries me.

So the upshot of our conversation was that whilst he felt very bad that I was so upset about all this, he didn't know what to do. He asked me if I would feel better if he got her a voucher for the jewellery shop (I don't actually think this is any different and further proves that the gift is nothing to do with the DC!) so I said that I felt uncomfortable telling him what to do and as a compromise I just don't want to hear about it or be involved in their gift exchanges. I'm not sure I feel any better if I'm honest as I don't think he truly understood that the gift buying dynamic borders on inappropriate despite admitting he'd feel odd if I were to wear a piece of jewellery bought by my ex .

"I do think many of his issues stem from him fearing the power she has. She has made threats in the past to stop him from seeing his DC if he didn't do what she wanted. I explained to him that it was very hard for me to see her be so difficult towards him and then watch him pander."

Well it is probably even more difficult for him, but people tend to try and justify it as their own choices when someone else really has power over them.

She has complete power over the most important thing in his life. Not much you can do in the face of that but grin and bear it and hope she decides to be nice.

Or, as OP seems to be veering towards, if the ex is Attila the Mum and has him by the short and curlies, he's welcome to plough her farm day and night, but he just has to do it on his own time and not talk about it.

(or grow a pair).

She's never going to stop him seeing the DC, as that would stop her lovely child-free weekends.

I wish men would understand what an empty threat that is.

Hi all. A bit of an update. I'm not sure what happened over the birthday gift as he's gone along with my wishes not to be involved in their gift exchanges. I suspect he bought the designer jewellery on this occasion though.

However, he dropped it into conversation with me that he'd told her the expensive gift buying would have to stop and apparently she was really angry and questioned why he was proposing this.

It's made me feel strange about their set up all over again. I don't know why he felt the need to tell her he wouldn't be spending so much in future. I told him that he didn't need her approval or permission and that he should just stop buying such expensive gifts. He'd already agreed that once we are officially living together that he would have stopped anyway. Her reaction also bothers me. Clearly she feels some sort of entitlement to receive expensive gifts/jewellery from my BF and I wonder if he is doing or saying something to encourage this attitude.

What do others think? Should I bring it up again or just get out now before I'm more embroiled in their imo, odd set up?

Anyone?

It sounds pretty much like the relationship my husband had with his ex when we met (apart from the buying expensive gifts, that's truly crazy). My husband's ex wife's mum or next husband would buy presents from my ss to his mum and my husband's mum then me would take ss shopping for presents for him. As ss got older we would remind him to get something for his mother.

As for the rest, I lived it! H was so scared of losing his son he let her chop and change things with little notice. You have to focus on the fact that he will love and fight for any children you may have in the future in a similar way. You have to be able to accept that this baggage is part of him, who he is, and was there before you. It's not easy, but that's how it is.

Once you've accepted that you have to keep working on your OH and telling him he won't lose contact if he puts his foot down a bit. Gradually he will. Gradually he will see you as a unit/family (it's fairly new really at a year). I can assure you the ex will throw fits initially but if you stay firm but fair it will settle down.

The other thing I can tell you is that despite all this stress and hassle, one day you will be in my shoes where ss is about to fly the nest and leave home, and you'll get the easier life and more time with your OH, and suddenly you'll wish you could do it all again!

Thank you for your reply honey. A lot of what you say makes sense, and for the most part I'm accepting of the situation. After all, he's in the same position as me as I have DC already and a somewhat difficult ex.

I think though that my main issue is that there are certain behaviours between them that would appear quite 'coupley'. The gift buying is one such example and the expectation that this will carry on despite them both having apparently moved on. I can't quite put my finger on what it is but I don't think they're as 'separated' as I am with my ex and as much as I would hope. He swears blind that he has no feelings for her beyond the fact that she is the mother to his child. There's just something that feels off though. But because I can't quite articulate what is strange about their set up, I can't raise it without seeming jealous and unhinged. Maybe it's a gut feeling I have. I'm not sure. I guess that's why I'm posting to gauge from outsiders perspectives what is normal in an amicable parenting relationship and what is inappropropriate if that makes sense?

Flipping heck. My exH left me, sees the DC EOW and we only communicate by very emotionless emails. We only text in an emergency. We very rarely change access arrangements as I don't think it's good for the DC to mess with their routine. Any gifts the DC buy for Xmas, birthdays etc, they buy out of their pocket money, so token £10 gifts. I'll take them to the shops and used to help them wrap, but that's it.

Sounds to me like he hasn't quite got over her yet. Then again, we're far from amicable, more like distantly polite.

Was about to head for bed but tread this and bells clanged. Loudly.

When I met my now DH , he'd been in a relationship - on and off for a decade almost, but no marriage as they kept falling out!! They'd split up for good - his decision - about a 18 months before I met him, and he's only had one brief fling in between. Various incidents made me feel like you do, Peggy. She had one child, not his - but DH had been part of her the child's life from toddlerhood. And no contact with the child's own father. I did feel sorry for the child, a young teenager when we met. But the mother was a manipulative cow who tried to call the shots. Even after we met she'd huff for days if she didn't get her own way over 'demands'.

When we first met he refused to tell her he'd met me. I think he was scared of her reaction. That was the first time alarm bells rang.
Incidents like bothering him at my place when she 'needed' money to go out; demanding that he take her duvet to the laundry - as she wasn't very tall. WTF? No expensive presents as none of us had spare cash, but there was a common feeling that she expected him to still be on hand to help to run her household. It was never his actual home so it wasn't like eh had a responsibly that way. She'd announce that he 'had to' feed her cats as she was going away, but never discuss with us if we were free. One weekend the poor mogs went hungry as she assumed he'd feed the cats, but he was busy with me. It was ghastly. Friends said I should dump him, and it was tempting at times. But I kept on. I did set very clear parameters and I had to spell things out to him.

Looking back with years of hindsight - we've been together over 25 years now - he was/is a people pleaser. he's a nice bloke who wants to do right by everyone. He's also a bit naïve and 'dim' when it comes to people - likes to see the best in people, etc. Not bad traits as such. But he was trying so hard back then to keep everyone happy, we were all pissed off with him - me, the ex, the child. The ex was a bully who'd called the shots for years and thought she could continue after they'd split up. I was very clear I wanted him to continue to see the child if that's what they both wanted but the r'ship with the mother had to change. it took lots of tactful chat between him and me. And I made it very clear esp. after we were an established couple, he had to run plans/changes of plan past me. I worked shifts and did want to see him sometimes. Gradually it settled down but it took time, 2 years maybe. And it was very stressful for me too.

I'm wondering what the ex's new boyfriend thinks about her getting expensive and personal presents from another man... I can't imagine he'd like it much, so I reckon either she lies about where she got the jewellery or she uses it to make him think that her ex still has feelings for her.

Maybe that's beside the point. In any case, you need to set boundaries: if he wants to be in a relationship with you he needs to consult you before changing any plans and he needs to set a rather more limited budget for presents for her (and choose something more appropriate). I think it's about having respect for his new relationship. I have kids with my ex and we still buy each other birthday and Christmas presents, but we buy things like books or DVDs etc. Definitely no jewellery!

Thanks again everyone for the replies. Definitely giving me more to think about. Topaz, your post about your DH being a people pleaser really resonated with me. I think my BF is the same and like with your DH, he's trying so hard to please everyone, hes pissing us all off. When I raised the issue in the first place, I could see he was torn over what to do. It actually pained him knowing he was going to either upset me or piss her off. He even asked me what I thought he should do.

I've given it a lot of thought though and therein lies the problem. I don't want to have to tell him what to do. I don't want to have to tell him what appropriate boundaries should be with an ex. I want him to know this and do it. He has been aware at times when she's overstepped the boundaries but more often than not, those boundaries are blurred.

There are other things like he calls his DC every day to speak on the phone. I'm absolutely fine with this, I know he misses his child. But after every phone call, he also speaks to his ex. I don't know what they talk about but still, he's in daily contact with his ex. Is this excessive? I tend not to contact my DC when they're with their DF because I see that as his time. We also only speak when strictly necessary or when there is actual news to pass on. We definitely don't 'check in' with each other daily. He's also told me about some of their conversations which I would consider strange between exes. Things like how they're getting on dating and the like. Fine if they were friends but he tells me he doesn't like her and would have nothing to do with her if it wasn't for their DC. Again, I'm not sure if this is 'normal' or not. It's just lots of little things that add up to a bad feeling on my part.

I actually told him early on that I had concerns that he still has feelings for her. He categorically denied it though and was quite upset that I thought this. He also had a gf before me but he ended it after a couple of months because she was quite possessive and jealous. I agreed with him from what he told me but have since wondered if she was also picking up on their odd dynamic.

I think the crux of the matter is that I'm struggling to trust him. I don't necessarily think he is up to no good but I wonder sometimes that if she suddenly wanted him back, would he consider it? I've been in relationships where I was cheated on and not prioritised and I'm not willing to put myself through that again. I think I deserve to be in a relationship where my SO believes me to be the only one.

Ok firstly, I don't get why an ex partner is paying for any gift at all. Birthday, Mother's day, Father's day, whatever.

I wouldn't pay for a gift for my ex, and he certainly wouldn't for me.

Kids can make something - it is supposed to be from them after all.

OP I'd have to put my foot down now and say you are not happy about this situation. Ex cannot keep demanding expensive gifts.

I don't however agree on the part about childcare, as that is between the two of them and that will never change. I suspect he loves seeing his DC so is happy to have them at a drop of a hat. That is a rare and endearing quality and not one to be crushed.

My take on it is this. If you're going to get together with someone with a child and therefore an ex in their lives, it has to be super good to work. Very emotionally mature on both sides, very aware, good boundaries on all fronts a must. Otherwise, it's a disaster waiting to happen - and as there are children involved, that isn't a good place to be.

Your BF sounds nice. He also sounds hopeless at negotiating boundaries. That has to change - and as you say, unfortunately for that to be at all effective or real, it has to be him doing it. I don't think he's at all equipped to do so - yes, he's eager to change, but to please you. Not at all the same thing. He's ok with her overstepping boundaries, acting like she is a key person in his life. He's ok with it. If you weren't there, it would continue. THAT is the problem. He's a pushover.

He also sounds emotionally immature. I don't think he necessarily still has feelings for her, at all. But what he clearly either can't do or thinks is not important is to differentiate properly when it comes to the roles of different people in his life. He should automatically not want to get into the expensive gift giving because of what it symbolises as much as anything else, for example - he should be aware that that's inappropriate and sends the wrong message when he has a new partner (and is even provocative on the part of his ex). But he can't see - or doesn't want to see - any of that. If he can afford it, what's the problem? That's ALL WRONG. He's either a shit hiding behind the 'ooh I can't see the problem' excuse, or he's genuinely very emotionally unintelligent.

Neither of these character traits - and I think they DO sound like character traits, not just responses to a situation - bode well for a good relationship with a man in this complex situation. And that's a long term issue.

So I would bow out now and either find a man without children, OR a man with children who can understand how important it is to really get to grips with the very nuanced dynamic in order to build a strong, boundaried relationship.

Sadly, I think Sylvanian sums it up quite clearly. Even now I have huge doubts about my DH's emotional intelligence and his ability with boundaries and I do think that was the crux of the situation with the ex all those years ago. Not in a sexual sense - he was clear at the time he'd stopped having sex with her when they split up, though I had my own doubts at times, and more recently we talked about it again, and he was categorical then too. I do believe him. But it is about more than sex, it's the other stuff that matters. I think even with children form previous relationships the parents do need to include all parties, including new partners, in contact, and in changes to the plans. I know you say, OP, you don't mind his child being around when your children aren't, but in some ways you have to set the standards early on. Or not.

Over the years with DH I have tried to see the good bits and ignore the 'bad', and it's been hard. We no longer have contact with the ex.( She always had a tendency to huff but this one has lasted years now. )For me this is a good thing especially. For him too. Though I do feel sorry for the child who was caught in the middle. We have had our own children and have stuck together, and I know part of my reluctance years ago to ditch him was my need for a sperm donor (pathetic but true) - and I do love him. I know I deluded myself at times as it was a very hard situation.. Your situation is different. I hear what you say about wanting him to realise himself what the right boundaries are. Only you can decide if you want to put in the effort to 'encourage' this.