Status of unmarried women in long term relationships should be taught in schools.

[prorsum]

A friend of mine has recently separated from her partner of 16 years, 2dcs under 14.

Legally she is entitled to nothing, common law wife is not a legal status. She has performed all the acts a sahm wife performs yet it counts for very little.

Her partner would not get married despite her wanting it and I know why, he knew.

She's not a money grabber, just wants some security for her children in case he meets someone else and has other dcs.

We've both done google to get some information as she cannot get legal aid and it's not happy reading.

I'm not man bashing, I think that it would be useful for both sexes to be aware of the implication of living together but it does impact more negatively on women.

It's true that if you don't know something's an issue then you're not going to go looking for information about it, but when you have children then you've got to be very naive not to consider your position. Especially if you're going to give up work.

Surely there aren't many people that would just assume that they are automatically protected somehow if they give up work to care for children?

The automatic assumption should be that we have to provide financially for ourselves, as that it the position that would seem the most common sense.

I am not sure if it is something that could be covered in schools, but I certainly think it is an important point for us to remember to discuss with our children. And I was not particularly aware of all these issues, so thanks.

Athena.

Isn't your DP in a vulnerable position?

Well one might think that would be the case ptolemy, but for whatever reason it clearly isn't. Clearly there are people who are naive, who do make assumptions. So the question becomes not whether such people exist, because they do. It's whether we should try to do anything about it, and if so what.

It wasn't a case of me thinking about whether I was "automatically protected" I just didn't think about it at all full stop. I lived with XH happily and we had a baby and my mind was full of all that that entailed not what would happen if we split up. In hindsight that was terribly naive but Probably not unusual ?

Tbh, I'm not sure that we should do anything about it, but then I don't like governments treating everyone as if they are stupid.

The curriculum at schools are full enough already, and if they are teaching personal financial management, which they do, then that's enough. Schools shouldn't need to state the bleeding obvious by telling people that if they don't work they won't be able to fund themselves. Especially considering that if people are that naive, a lesson at school is unlikely to make much difference.

Other than teaching it at school, the only other way woudo be some kind of public information campaign, but there are far more important priorities for public money so I wouldn't agree with that either.

I think as someone said earlier the problem is that like with many things we don't seek factual information until we need it by which time it's often too late. An example on another thread is Power of Attorney stuff .

Someone needs to write a plain English manual on all these things !

How simple you make it sound Ptolemy and such insight into human nature

Schools shouldn't need to state the bleeding obvious by telling people that if they don't work they won't be able to fund themselves. Especially considering that if people are that naive, a lesson at school is unlikely to make much difference.

Wow, that is harsh. You really have no idea of the life some kids lead. None at all. Schools were invented for a reason and for some people it has lead to them living a life so completely different from their childhood existence. I think teachers should be paid loads because I know what some have to deal with. They don't only educate pupils academically.

I do find it hard to understand women who say it never even occurred to them to find out. I mean, don't you watch tv, films, read books, magazines, newspapers, have friends or family members or acquaintances who have ended relationships? Its not like its something that just doesn't come up, its a very common happening.
I'm not giving out, I just honestly don't see how you couldn't have had a fleeting thought at the least.

It's evidently not enough though ptolemy, that's the thing. By all means take the attitude that schools shouldn't be the ones responsible for solving this problem, I understand that point. But don't pretend that it doesn't exist.

Athena whilst you are of course within your rights not to want to marry - it's ridiculous to say that you don't want to because if you married your DC would be disinherited. Everyone with DC should have a will anyway and it's perfectly simple to ensure that all your possessions will go to your children rather than your spouse after your death.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but I genuinely can't see where the extra time is supposed to come from for either teachers or children to teach this stuff in a way that's going to make a significant difference. For every new thing that is added to the curriculum, something else has to be dropped, and I'd have thought that most parents don't want their children to miss out on learning things that are beneficial for the sake of them being taught things that parents would rather discuss at home.

I know some children have very difficult home lives and so don't learn the things that we would hope them to, but if a need is identified then that needs to be dealt with separately to the normal curriculum. Otherwise, how far do we take it? Should we have teachers teaching children how to use a public transport safely, how to drive, everything about employment rights, what happens when you buy a house, tenants rights, how to care for babies, how to parent well, how to pay for a TV licence etc etc.

We could go on forever thinking of things that parents should teach but might not. We can't deal with it all through schools, schools are not parents.

Only read beginning of this but I do think schools should have a wider focus, and not just on academic results. Both can be done together. There is so much important stuff to learn in the teenage years and I think school can make an important contribution to this, alongside home and the enrichment of other youth organisations and activities

One thought, although it might sound a bit patronising, I think this is something that could useful be dealt with in a soap story. I know that they love a wedding, so they probably don't have as many long term unmarried cohabitants as there are in the real world, but it would make for a gripping and educational storyline to have one partner run over by a bus (intestate) or just leave and have the other one deal with the financial consequences.

My thought was not an term of lessons on the subject, just dropping it into a relevant class. Seriously they some have spoken here you wonder why anybody goes to school at all. School covers so much more than education.

And trust me, in some areas of this country, the school is way better than a parent.

OP I know it's hard to see your friend in this situation, but you seem to be ignoring the fact that in other areas of your friends life, she has managed inform herself without relying on her schooling.

She has had two children, and she (presumably) registered their births. How did she know that she had to do that? Was it part of her school curriculum? Not only did she find out what she had to do, where and by when, she would also have found out during the process that her common-law DH wpuld be treated differently from a legally-married-DH for the purposes of registering their DCs births. She would have been asked their marital status, and told that in order for her DP to be on the birth certificate, he would have to be present at the registration.

Your friend had information at her disposal when her DCs were born that indicated that common-law and legally-married spouses had different legal status - yet she chose not to investigate and find out anything further. She (presumably) ignored the numerous magazine/newspaper articles, radio discussions, TV coverage etc that she could reasonably assume related to her situation.

She was not ignorant of the fact that married and unmarried couples are considered differently in law - she knew that in relation to registering her DCs births. She just chose not to find out anything further. I can understand why; her DP was not willing to enter into marriage, so it was easier to ignore the risks remaining unmarried placed on her.

Even if you think you are clued up you might be wrong - I thought I was pretty savvy but it was only when sat in front of a solicitor with dh signing off on a land purchase that I discovered our recent marriage invalidated our wills.

We had co-habited for 15 years and he had moved into my house, contributed to the mortgage, paid off said mortgage when the banks went tits, registered our dcs with me so he had pr and I knew he was legally out on a limb so had written the will to basically put him in the same position as a spouse (as had he). It was only when we moved and took out a mortgage together I started to worry about MY status and booked the registrar. ILs were a bit disappointed that we practically grabbed them on the way past and didn't have a do (nice cuppa and cake after) but this was a legal transaction, not an excuse for spending a second mortgage on a party. Dd had a nice dress...

And then I found out I still didn't know it all...

I have several friends who are not married and have children, I don't know how much they know about their position but I assume they don't think the relationship will break down so don't dwell on it.

In my friends cases though none of them own their own home (they rent) and both parents work so am thinking financially it wouldn't be the end of the world?

Of course school covers more than just academic education, I well aware of that from working in one (primary though) but there is still only so much that schools can teach.

Maybe what you're asking for is already covered then really. I know my eldest child at secondary has learned about budgeting and interest rates and the like, so I think children are taught that they need to be responsible for themselves financially. And if they know that, then it follows that they will consider for themselves their position if they choose to give up work to look after children.

How did she know to register the births? It's in the Bounty pack! Info is quite literally handed to you before you leave the maternity ward.

Yes exactly kitty, and this is what I meant upthread when I said a little knowledge can be more dangerous than none at all. Someone who has an idea that they should have wills and own property in joint names and thinks this gives them the same protection as marriage may sometimes be in a more vulnerable position than someone who doesn't. Because the latter person, if they hear that marriage is the only foolproof way to obtain various rights, might think 'shit, best get to the registry office asap'. Whereas the former, when hearing the same message, could be under the mistaken impression that the partial protection they have in place is enough, and not be receptive to the message.

All children, or just the girls, OP?
After all, they are the ones you are saying are struggling to cope with the idea of finding out the consequences of the choices they make as adults. Perhaps the boys could learn something more relevant for them, like how to fight and win a custody battle?
Or we could look at the laws of the land and create a series of short-term contracts for people entering into a relationship, no sex unless state-authorised and your contract is signed.
Or we could treat people like adults and expect them to manage their own lives, with information freely available.
Ptolemy is right, schools need to be focused on educating people into being decent human beings with a clear understanding of their rights, responsibilities and respect for others and an enthusiasm for challenging inequality where they see it.

I think it's basic common sense that you don't stop working and have children with a man you are not married to.

Noone else's fault really.