To wish we could show all the curmudgeons what it's like when we "don't control our kids"?

[toomuchtooold]

I was reading this article in the Guardian about travelling on public transport with a baby and as usual there were a ton of comments complaining about parents who can't control their children.

Now. I have 3 year old twins and sadly have not managed to find the key to making them sit nice and quiet on the bus. They respond, unpredictably, to threats, bribery, having lunch, singing "a big red bus" over and over and over and taking it in turns to cry while the other one gets to play with my mobile phone. So you know, although I can't control them as such, I do try very hard to influence them, and I don't think my efforts and those of my fellow parents are fully appreciated by those who complain about children on the Guardian's comments pages. So it got me thinking... what would it be like if we stopped making an effort? Imagine if one day we all just got on public transport as usual but this time made no effort to manage our children's behaviour... just get our phones out and start checking Facebook while the kids yell their heads off/throw biscuits on the floor/climb all over the seats... we could organise! It would be like a parents' work to rule!

Anyone with me?

No. Controlling children isn't a'one off,' it is instilling acceptable behaviour in all situations so they know the consequences for not behaving as you have taught them to.

And I don't think three years old is too young to learn that.

Like the enthusiasm. Bad idea though I feel

Yanbu.

If I didn't control my 6yo she'd be under a car. I have to deal with the tantrums next to the road.

Mine are unpredictable with bribes too. Except star charts, that never worked full stop because they'd rip them off the wall in a day or so.

Three isn't too young to learn that, but it might be too young to expect them to have mastered it.

I didn't have twins, so only had to cope with one small child at a time. That was my DD1, as she was born while we lived in London.

I guess being one to one with her was easier, but either she was strapped into the buggy if there was room, or if I had to fold it then she was made to either sit on the seat next to me or to sit on my lap. She babbled and chattered often loudly to me about anything and everything, and was normally OK. I didn't let her climb and running around on the tube/DLR was a no-no for safety reasons. From the age of about 10 months onwards I often had her in a back-pack seat, from which she amused herself by doing things like re-arranging my hair, pulling my ears and putting her hands over my eyes!!! I guess it ensured that she wasn't annoying anyone else though.

By the time DD2 and DD3 were born we had long moved out of London and relied on cars due to the lack of public transport, so I don't know how they would have been when toddlers.

Excuse, 3 years old isn't too young to be taught to sit quietly but it is too young to have learned it so thoroughly that you do it for more than 20 minutes even when you're tired/hungry/bored. My kids aren't bad, and they know I make good on my threats, but sometimes they need to be on public transport when they are overtired and bored and I can keep disciplining a crying child for crying but I don't think anyone is going to learn anything from that...

meglet, I am kind of relieved to hear someone else had zero success with star charts! I think my DDs went from being too young to understand to too old to be influenced, in about 2 days... DT1 is as cool as ice, will give her sister one on the nose and then triumphantly take herself to the naughty step with a face on that says "yes, I did it, I'll take the punishment, and I'd do it all again"

I never really worked out how you were supposed to instil good behaviour in a toddler, let alone a baby. You tell it to stop doing whatever naughty thing it is doing. It continues to do it. Then what? Obviously you can't hit it. You can then either bribe or threaten it, both of which are supposedly poor parenting practice, and which rarely work anyway (though bribes work more often than threats). Then what?

Someone said the other day very loudly "she better shut that kid up" about my DS who is 2, he was only singing quietly in the supermarket.

Some people forget they were kids once I think.

I'm from the death stare school of parenting, if my child is being good but a little loud and people tut or sigh or mutter, I just give them the cut eye unblinking until they get the picture that I'm not about to take their shit

We haven't had much luck with star charts, he just got bored of the idea in no time. Thankfully I haven't had to inflict him or his baby brother on public transport, but generally out and about it can be hit and miss. I have had days where its catch 22 - I'm either a bad mother because he's misbehaving or I'm a bad mother for having to bribe/threaten him to get him to stop. Yanbu in that kids below school age misbehave and you can't reason with them the way you can an older child. You do your best, but for some it will never be good enough.

I have never made any attempt to control DCs behaviour. And I doubt I would succeed if I did.

Too much I think you have clones of my twins, exactly the same!

i love my children but i hate taking them on public transport my six year old gets bored and tries to jump off and on the seats if my two year old is in his pushchair he isnt too bad unless he is near a button or tantruming where he will scream for his blankie when i give it to him he will sling it away and scream louder for his blankie and repeat! my six year old needs a seat-belt if he has one he will stay put

i get a lot of mutters so im going to attempt to learn to drive at least then im the only one who has to suffer my children

I've not been on the Guardian comment site for ages. I used to spend a lot of time there before I had DCs and switched to mumsnet for my "bickering over the Internet" fix, but the OP piqued my curiosity so I went and had a look at the article and comments she mentions. Although it's been at least 4 years I recognized the commenter who was posting the most anti- parent and child opinions. They were spouting the same stuff back then as well!

OP, I think the majority of the public are more reasonable and sympathetic towards parents who are obviously making an effort to engage their children on public transport; either because they are parents themselves, or realise that noisy children are a temporary and trivial annoyance in the grand scheme of things.

Those who feel strongly enough to bother leaving disapproving comments on parenting articles (over the course of years!) are unlikely to be appeased by anything a parent or child could do in their presence, short of disappearing off the face off the earth. So are not worth bothering about.

Just keep on doing what you're doing toomuchtooold; they'll grow out of it soon (your twins that is, not the miserable twats on the Guardian site). I remember being 6 months pregnant and crouching on the wet dirty floor of a London bus at rush hour, next to my toddler in his pushchair, frantically splitting grapes with my fingernails and shoving them in to his gob while singing "The Wheels in the Bus" over and over to avoid a tantrum. It passes!

I think there is a world of difference between the normal parent who tries and the "isn't Tarquin adorable?" brigade. My children were generally fine although they both had their moments. Consequently I am sympathetic and not a tutter when a child is misbehaving unless mother of said child is either ignoring them completely or gazing at them adoringly while they scream till people's ears bleed

There was a woman on the tube the other day during my morning commute. Her pre-schooler was having a proper red-faced, sobbing meltdown and she had the rictus smile and the harried eyes which I am sure we all recognise as she briskly, but gently tried to calm him down. I felt particular compassion for her, because the child's T-shirt bore the legend "Happy Chappie"

Thanks for all the replies everyone! It is nice to know I'm not the only one

Mrsfrumble I know exactly who you mean, he must have spent about 5 hours on there! You do sort of lose your moral authority when you make that much effort to be obnoxious.
chicken yesterday on the train I told my DD1 the story of the Boy Who Cried Wolf to try to explain her why you shouldn't press the assistance button if you're not ill. I thought this was a great piece of parenting on my part, except that while I was doing it, DD2 was literally climbing up the wall. She is like some kind of crazy spider.

senren mine are slowly getting to the point where they are loud and (to me) funny rather than actually tantrummy, and I am a bit nervous about how they are received by other people. Personally if a toddler pointed at me and went "why that lady got headphones on? Why that lady standing there? Why that lady getting on our train? Why that lady got a blue jacket" etc I'd find it hilarious but I might be in the minority there... (she did it yesterday, and we live abroad, and I said to her, you do know people here can understand English? At which point the woman in question started laughing so hard her shoulders were shaking...)

I don't tut-tut... I actually stare at them with my eyes full of pity, thinking that, while I go home to my quiet house, they must live with the little horrors full time

I almost always feel quite a lot of empathy for parents dealing with toddler meltdowns in public spaces. It ain't fun.

if you are struggling so much already at the age of three, maybe you could ask your GP for referral to a parenting course? Twins are a bit different.

I wish people would accept that if you have well-behaved, 'model' children it is 5% parental effort and 95% luck.

I don't get the massive angst over children in the UK. It's like people are afraid of them or need to apologise for inflicting them on the world. Who cares if a toddler has a tantrum on a bus? Who's he hurting? Are British people so sensitive they can't just ignore it? In Ireland children are just part of the wallpaper, no one really registers what they're doing unless it's dangerous or actively harming someone else. I love taking my two out in Cork, people either smile and say nice things, ignore us entirely or help out. None of this tutting fuckwittery. I often as a teenager held a baby for a random parent on the bus, just to give a hand.
A few weeks ago DD fell while running (here in England) and a woman walking past said 'I could see that was going to happen.' Why do that? Why pass such a pointless, judgey comment? Had I seen the same thing I'd have ignored or said something sympathetic. This rampant negativity about kids is one aspect of British culture I absolutely hate. Just mind your own bloody business!

And having read the article all I'm thinking is come the fuck on, who on earth would judge someone for a crying three month old!! He said he wanted to go through the train showing a photo of when the baby 'behaved'. Are there seriously idiots out there who think a baby 'misbehaves'?? Surely not. Is it because families tend to be smaller in the UK - is it that people don't have enough direct experience of babies?

Wise words, cailindana - I hate the British negativity about children.