Bloody jury service

[fussychica]

In all my years at work, where I would have been paid by my employer, I was never called for jury service. I'm now retired and I've been called right in the middle of the summer. Although I don't mind doing the actual thing getting there will be a nightmare, (I dont drive) and the subsistance doesnt even cover 2 drinks let alone lunch. I dont have an actual holiday booked but had quite a few plans for this part of the summer. I know its my civic duty but Im a bit pissed off about it as if you couldnt tell

In the days when it was easier for the defence to challenge jurors, it used to be said that the way to get out of it was to turn up ostentatiously carrying a copy of the Daily Telegraph. If it was a fraud trial, you needed a copy of the Financial Times, on the basis that the last thing the Defence wanted was someone who actually understood all the figures.

TTWK - I wasn't meaning to make a profit, it covers your salary less costs but my part time earnings are less than it would cost for a week's childcare, so it wouldn't cover my loss as I'd have to pay for something I don't have a need for usually. And SAHMs would be totally out of pocket as insurance won't cover them for jury service as there is no loss of earnings.

The policy will usually cover financial loss, not just loss of earnings. This would include additional childcare, cancelled holiday costs, mini cab to collect kids from school etc. Just get receipts.

Of course, it all depends on the level of cover you have.

The first time I did jury service, it was a long conspiracy to defraud trial. The jurors were given a chance to say if serving on a long trial would cause hardship, and a couple were excused as a result of their circumstances. No hanging around on that one, it was like a normal daily job - although the hours were kinder. But it was long and complex, and about half the jury were unable to follow the details which was worrying and depressing.

My second time was a more routine three short cases with lots of hanging around.

But both stints have been fascinating. And the gods of juries have decided to reward me for doing my civic duty by calling me for a third time. I deferred this one - hoping to be excused- because my circumstances make it a bit tricky at the moment. But my deferral at least allows me to try to set some contingency arrangements in place.

Just to note, the exemptions are different in Scotland:

You are ineligible for jury service if any of the categories mentioned below apply to you:
? you are a Justice of the Supreme Court or the President or Deputy President of that Court;

? you are a Senator of the College of Justice;

? you are a sheriff;

? you are a Justice of the Peace;

? you are a stipendiary magistrate;

? you are the chairman or the president, the vice chairman or vice president, the registrar or assistant registrar of any tribunal;
? you have, at any time within the 10 years immediately preceding the date at which your eligibility for jury service is being considered, come within any description listed above in this box.
? you are an Advocate or a solicitor, whether or not in actual practice as such;

? you are an advocate’s clerk;

? you are an apprentice of, or a legal trainee employed by, solicitors;

? you are an officer or staff of any court if your work is wholly or mainly concerned with the day to day administration of the court;

? you are employed as a shorthand writer in any court;

? you are a Clerk of the Peace or one of their deputies;

? you are an Inspector of Constabulary appointed by Her Majesty;
? you are an assistant inspector of constabulary appointed by the Secretary of State. ? you are a constable of any police force (including constables engaged on central service within the meaning of section 38 of the Police (Scotland) Act 1967;
? you are a constable of any constabulary maintained under statute;

? you are a person employed in any capacity by virtue of which you have the powers and privileges of police constables;

? you are a special constable;

? you are a police cadet;
? you are a person employed under section 9 of the Police (Scotland) Act 1967 for the assistance of the constables of a police force;
? you are a member of the National Criminal Intelligence Service;

? you are a member of the Service Authority for the National Criminal Intelligence Service or a person employed by that Authority under section 13 of the Police Act 1997;
? you are a member of staff of the Serious Organised Crime Agency;

? you are an officer of, or a member of visiting committees for, prisons, remand centres, detention centres, borstal institutions or young offenders institutions;
? you are a prisoner custody officer within the meaning of section 114(1) of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994;

? you are a procurator fiscal within the meaning of section 307(1) of the Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 1995, or are employed as a clerk or assistant to such procurators fiscal;
? you are a messenger at arms or sheriff officer;
? you are a member of a children’s panel;

? you are a reporter appointed under section 36 of the Social Work (Scotland) Act 1968 or are a member of a reporter’s staff; you are a director of social work appointed under section 3 of the Social Work (Scotland) Act 1968 or are employed to assist such directors in the performance of such of their functions as relate to probation schemes within the meaning of section 27 of that Act;
? you are a member of the Parole Board for Scotland; or
? you have, at any time within the 5 years immediately preceding the date at which your eligibility for jury service is being considered, come within any description contained in the categories above in box B;

? you are a member or employee of the Scottish Criminal Case Review Commission;

? you are a chief officer of a community justice authority established under section 3 of the Management of Offenders etc. (Scotland) Act 2005;
? you are a person who is receiving medical treatment for mental disorder and are either – o for the purposes of that treatment, detained in hospital under the Mental Health (Care and Treatment) (Scotland) Act 2003 or the Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 1995; o for the time being subject to guardianship under the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Act 2000; Are You Eligible to Apply for Excusal?

Box C – Persons Excusable as of Right If you come within one of the categories noted below, you have the option to apply to the court to be excused as of right.

. ? you are a peer or peeress entitled to receive writs of summons to attend the House of Lords;
? you are a member of the House of Commons;

? you are an officer of the House of Lords;
? you are an officer of the House of Commons;
? you are a member of the Scottish Parliament;
? you are a member of the Scottish Executive;
? you are a Junior Scottish Minister;
? you are a Representative to the Assembly of the European Parliament;

? you are a member of the National Assembly for Wales;
? you are the Auditor General for Scotland;
? you are a medical practitioner; dentist; nurse; midwife; pharmaceutical chemist; or a veterinary surgeon or veterinary practitioner (if actually practising your profession) and are registered (whether full or otherwise), you are enrolled or are certified under the enactments relating to that profession.

? you are a practising member of a religious society or order the tenets or beliefs of which are incompatible with jury service.
? you are a person in a holy order
? you are a regular minister of any religious denomination; or
? you are a vowed member of any religious order living in a monastery, convent or other religious community.

? you are a full time serving member of: o any of Her Majesty’s naval, military or air forces; o The Women’s Royal Naval Service; o Queen Alexandra’s Royal Naval Nursing Service; o or any Voluntary Aid Detachment serving with the Royal Navy; However, if your commanding officer certifies that it would be prejudicial to the efficiency of the force of which you are a member, should you be required to attend for jury service, you may apply for excusal as of right up until the date you attend court
. ? you have attended court for jury service within the last five years but were not selected by ballot to serve on a jury (this only applies where your previous attendance was on a date prior to 10th January 2011); ? you have attended court for jury service within the last two years but were not selected by ballot to serve on a jury (this only applies where your previous attendance was on a date on or after 10th January 2011);
? you have attended at court for jury service and were selected by ballot to serve on a jury, within the last five years;
? you were excused by direction of any court from jury service for a period which has not yet expired;

? you have reached the age of 71.

Ah - we were in Scotland, so that would explain it! Sorry for giving inaccurate information.

I got called for jury service a few years ago. It was incredibly boring. They had cases that were going to court. Each time they settled before they went in. One got thrown out after 3 hours into it. I spent two weeks sat waiting to go in and never going in. I didn't even get sent home. We all nearly ended up in a bored coma ! Dread the thought of being called again.

Superexcited, was it explained why loss of income wasn't taken into account? The courts seems happy for people to lose their jobs and homes due to jury service. How can that be acceptable?
How is is acceptable that someone is expected to go 9wks without being paid? How many others could cope with that? Is that not a massive massive flaw that needs addressing? Insurance isn't well publicised and isn't really an option for those on low pay short term contracts. We were not in this position but had just graduated and our student debt and our mortgage took up most of our salaries.

DH is no longer a contractor but the country is full of people on short term contracts. Some, if they're doing ok, will have a month or 2 as a buffer to cover gaps between or illness. Many are just living day to day.
And even those who have managed to save, is it acceptable to expect them to effectively pay for their own jury service? If the courts told all other employers that they should no longer pay as jurors themselves were expected to pay there'd be outrage.

I've been called three times in the past few years. First time was dismissed on the 1st day of trial, second and third times I had newborn babies so they were happy to let me defer.

I'm a contractor and I have a buffer, but that buffer is there as my safety net in case of extended periods out of work, not to pay for jury service.

If I couldn't fulfill my contract for 2+ weeks it would likely be terminated, so the loss of income could extend well beyond the 2 weeks.

I don't think it's acceptable for people to have to make such huge sacrifices to fulfill civic duty.

Never been called, tho' always hoped to when I was a salaried employee. Now I am self-employed would be a worry.

One of the reasons there is so much hanging about for jurors is because quite a high proportion of defendants plead guilty on the day once it's been confirmed that the witnesses have turned up. It's like an elaborate game of who'll blink first.

The entire justice system is creaking along patched up with Elastoplast and string. Re the paper on Delivering Justice in Austerity - the Crown Prosecution Service has already had to shed 30% of its staff in response to swingeing Treasury budget cuts since 2010, and justice is suffering as a result with the Service struggling to prepare court papers on time, making more errors as staff juggle ever-increasing workloads and spread themselves ever-more thinly, lawyers spending entire weeks back-to-back in courts with no preparation time to read trial files (and I don't mean one lawyer prosecuting one case for weeks - I mean lawyers spending every day in court dealing with numerous different files every day, some of which they'll have never seen before) and the knock-on effect that has on the office staff trying to prepare the papers with no lawyers in the office to review/advise upon/sign them, witness care departments pared to the bone so more trials collapse because the victims and witnesses aren't adequately supported and prepared. If there are yet more cuts to come, then God help us all: victims, witnesses, defendants and jurors.

I would love love to be called for jury service :)

I have never been called but, would love to! My ex h got called once when our kids were very small. I was off work looking after babies and he was self employed so his was the only income. I wrote to them explaining this and they 'released' him, no problem.

I did this a few years ago - fortunately my dc were teens and could look after themselves a bit. The case last one week.

It meant missing the beginning of a foundation degree course I'd just started but the whole process was fascinating. The young offender in the dock had almost certainly carried out the attack but the circumstances and provocation were extraordinary. The judge thanked us afterwards for returning the right verdict.

The employer might not fire then, but they might be top of the list for the next round of redundancies.

I would love to do Jury Duty, but I'm just not well enough. I assume the court aren't going to provide me a bed in the court room as I can't sit up for long, and have a break for the regular sleeps I need? Plus I can't concentrate for long with the levels of pain I'm in, or travel.

I assume I'd get an excemption for medical reasons? I'm in ESA Support Group, so I don't know if they even try and pick people who have been declared unfit for work - but knowing the system, they probably do!

I did it a couple of years ago, and found it quite interesting although the waiting around while 'legal arguments' were going on seemed a bit of a waste of time for everyone.

I found the court day wasn't to bad mine was 10am to 4pm (if we were actually there all day) most days I was home by 3pm so I could drop children at school and pick them up, so mum only had my youngest after nursery. The one thing I didn't understand was we were given a daily allowance for food and drink I think it was around £5.50 and at the end of your time any money you hadn't used was given to you as part of your travel/food expenses.

I see the excemption list says people with medical reasons can defer. It doesn't mention those with severe physical disabilities having an exemption. It's a bit annoying they have a whole excemption for mental health (which could cover a huge spectrum) and only a possible deferral for physical difficulties if you plead your case.

So yet another system to have to justify ourselves to, worry about and hope they'll understand.

Plus how many courts are accessible anyway? I had a case at the High Court some time ago (I took them to court) and my solicitor put in four requests for a wheelchair accessible court, of which there are only a few. We got there on the day, and surprise surprise, I couldn't get in! This was for a disability discrimination case, and there was no apology from the staff/judge for the huge irony.

I was called twice. Not vry interesting cases. It is true you can e kept waiting. And then not get on

A jusdge told a good story, for a change. As below.

The case was about a young mens fracas in a pub. The defence barrister said to a witness. "You may not have said anything but you did make a hand sign." The brief then did the w+nker sign

The judge in summing up said to the jury. "If you did not know what a w+anker was, you did after Mr ++++ splendid demonstration."

It went down well

witness care departments pared to the bone so more trials collapse because the victims and witnesses aren't adequately supported and prepared.

Yep. I've been in my current post 8 years and it has gradually got worse and worse. We lost 3 members of staff out of our team of 15 (excluding managers) last month and they are not being replaced. We were already carrying 4 full time unfilled posts. We have also had the introduction of Transforming Summary Justice which requires us to do a lot more pointkess administration.

The result is that a witness might get contacted 2 or 3 times between charge and trial rather than the quality, supportive service we used to provide. We now send texts and emails rather than talking to people because we just don't have time. It's really shit.

Good advice is not to get on a jury in a major fraud trial They can go on for months and then have a hung jury and a possible retrial

I frequently get called as a witness as part of my job. Once I was called in when I was off sick, still had to go, and once when I got the call as I was on the way to the travel agents, holiday cancelled.

I would still love to do jury service though. We do still get paid by our employer though.

I've just been called for the THIRD time in six years. First was a five week trial, second I sat around for two weeks and did three one day trials. This time I tried to get excused on account is done it so often and it's hard for my work and I struggle to get childcare for what is usually my day off. Did they care? Not a jot.

And I'm in London where the food subsistence doesn't cover a Pret a Manger sandwich and drink.

I take it seriously when I'm there. Unlike some people I've sat on juries with who started with the idea they would never find anyone guilty no matter what evidence we heard. I was actually horrified my the general intelligence of my fellow jurors. It put me off trial by peers. So many guilty people get off as many jurors don't understand the evidence, or don't believe in jails, or don't understand the concept that "beyond reasonable doubt" does not mean the same as "100% certainly guilty".

It is getting to be a much much bigger problem now so many of us are self employed or not zero hours contracts rather than with one big employer like HMRC or the NHS for life who is going to be paying us. If you don't answer that client's call within about 10 minutes they are off to the next service provider. £5 lunch a day does not really compensate for that. I am surprised I've not been called since they changed the rules in England to include lawyers but that's just as well as full time working single mother of 5 who for a good bit of that time was breastfeeding too does not have a lot of time to take 2 weeks off work. I don't think there is a single 2 weeks for the next 12 months when I don't have things booked already like trials, talks where people have already paid a lot to hear me.

If you could book precisely the period in advance just like we have booked the Jan 2016 holiday already etc and have absolute clarity over the hours so you could fix an afternoon meeting to start at 5 - 9pm after your day duties that might help a bit. Anyway hopefully I won't be called.

I did it 15 years ago. I needed a week instead of 2 days off. But we had 4 lunch options and had to eat together and not discuss the trial at any point. I was 6 months pregnant, so found it hard going.

you are a practising member of a religious society or order the tenets or beliefs of which are incompatible with jury service.

Ah ha. So all we need to do is find out what religion it is that forbids jury duty and claim to be a member.

And I'm in London where the food subsistence doesn't cover a Pret a Manger sandwich and drink.

Then take a lunch with you rather than buying it from somewhere overpriced like Pret. When I did mine there was a canteen at the court.