Bloody jury service

[fussychica]

In all my years at work, where I would have been paid by my employer, I was never called for jury service. I'm now retired and I've been called right in the middle of the summer. Although I don't mind doing the actual thing getting there will be a nightmare, (I dont drive) and the subsistance doesnt even cover 2 drinks let alone lunch. I dont have an actual holiday booked but had quite a few plans for this part of the summer. I know its my civic duty but Im a bit pissed off about it as if you couldnt tell

I was called but was excused as I was pregnant with twins and it was a high risk pregnancy and quite unwell. I would not have afforded the childcare for my older children though on the allowance provided. I would like to do it in the future though.

OP, I just looked up the subsistence costs. Wow. That wouldn't cover anything in London. Extraordinary. Now I'm wondering if you're allowed to take in about 2 litres of water of your own, which I'd need to do...!

blackrider - no I'm not saying abolish jury trials - as I said in my last post it's runnish but to be fair I don't know how it could be satisfactory 'fixed' - tbh though I think many people wouldn't mind doing jury service but there should be an easier 'opt out' for people or summin like "we need you for jury service this year, please indicate which if XYZ would be your first, second and third choice of time" or summin - but I do appreciate the administrative headaches that may well cause.

OP wasn't talking about stressful trials - I think im letting my own mental state get in the way here to be fair.

I read somewhere that the whole courts/justice system is one of the areas which is not protected under the next expenditure review. IE the govt plans to look at costs.
There's been a working group of legal people who have just published a paper on Delivering Justice in an Age of Austerity. I got a copy out of interest but haven't gotten around to reading it yet. I believe that its aim was to identify areas of the legal process which could be streamlined in order to reduce costs with the preferred outcome of ensuring that those who cannot afford to bankroll legal costs indefinitely [legal aid recipients etc] will not suffer because their pockets are not deep.

Hopefully it will improve matters. Not in time for the OP though.

rider - I thoygt there was a choice of given a written statement for some witnesses. I'm no legal expert - if I'm wrong fair enough. It's horrid for witnesses - trouble is personally thinking of them makes my mental state about jury service worse as I feel bad for them but know a trial would do me in. If I could get rid of my mental illness and do jury service free from anxiety, believe me I would at least try to give it a go.

HYE, OnIlkeyMoor said it.

Dramaqueen witnesses and victims need to be available for cross examination. They can't just submit their testimony and not attend court because then there would be no way of cross examining them. Even when they appear on video link they have to be present in the video link room so they can be questioned 'live'.

theblackrider don't know where I got the written evidence thibg from - I just thought it was the case. I'm wrong, fair enough.
As I've said - it's horrid for witnesses, victims, etc to be caught in the system - thinking of that makes my anxiety about jury service worse!! I want to be able to help those victims and do my duty, however with ASD and anxiety it's a vicious circle of worry about the victims, own mental state etc and I feel if really be unable to be 'fair' in a trial due to those anxieties. Luckily I haven't been called up so far......I hope I never will be or if I ever am am in a better mental state to be there.

The victims and witnesses deserve a jury of people who are willing and able to be there - no one would deliberately 'hurry along a trial' or not listen properly or whatever, but I do believe that if jurors are worried about loss of earnings, childcare, not sleeping etc they will not be in the best mental state for the trial or able to concerntrate properly on the trial no matter how hard they try. It's a difficult one with, I think, no ideal solution. I have no envy for the people making these rules.

The problem with an easier opt-out is that the random nature of the juror pool starts getting skewed, fewer mothers of young children, more retired and unemployed people etc. IIRC there is an opt-out for those with learning difficulties/mental health issues though.

superexcited as I said I'm no expert, it was just an idea I had in my head - dunno where I got it from!
It's rubbish for victims and witnesses, more so than for jurors, but that's why they deserve a jury who haven't got other things on their mind. Unfortunatly, as I said, I can't see how the system could be changed - at least not easily!

Re: the waiting around, they have to have a surplus of jurors available, for various reasons, for example:
potential jurors not turning up, which would delay everything if they didn't have extras available;
finding that someone can't serve on a jury they've been selected for, for example because they know someone involved in the trial - again they need to replace that person at once, or hold everything else up.

There are unfortunately some jurors that want a verdict quickly so they can get home, others think if you're in the dock youre guilty, others than the police aren't to be trusted etc. That's why there's 12 of you, so that it balances out with the majority taking it seriously and hopefully reaching the correct verdict.
I don't think volunteering would work as the idea is it's a cross section of society from all walks of life. I think being a professional juror would attract a certain type of person and others e.g. self employed or high earners wouldn't consider it at all

But Whoknows, what's the answer when it is so financially crippling for some people esp those who contract? It's not that DH didn't want to do it (he's now a lawyer) it's just that it left us on massive debt. And if I was called and needed to find childcare for 4children, what would I do? What do people do? DH could probably do a wk or so at home but not 9wks like his own jury service was.

My MIL got called, just as I went back to work after Mat Leave. She did 2 days of childcare for me, so for the 7 weeks the trial lasted (November and December) I had to find an extra £100 per week for childcare. That definitely dragged! Luckily we had childcare vouchers stashed from my mat leave, but that wasn't how we planned to spend them...

We couldn't claim anything as it was my childcare, not hers. Although it was a very traumatic trial for her (historical abuse against prominent figures) so we just gritted our teeth and had a frugal Christmas.

drama I imagine you would be able to get exempted from jury service due to your medical issues. You would need to make an application to be exempted if you were called up and you would provably need some evidence from your GP.
Your situation is very different from the OPs.

I call BS on the complaints about lunch allowances. Take a packed one?

I always wanted to get called for jury service. I think it's a really, really important job and would be interesting BUT I had no idea you didn't actually get paid while you did it. I always thought your employer was bound by law to pay you and if you were self employed you could make a claim.

A few years ago a colleague was called just before Christmas. Obviously I realised then that you don't necessarily get paid or properly compensated. That is so unjust! No wonder lots of people are worried about doing it. It's not a case of "not being arsed" it's a case of being really worried about the money. What happens if you get an extremely long case?

Our crown court has 2 baguette shops within walking distance where you can get filled baguette, crisps and a drink for less than £2. A meal deal in a supermarket is about £3.50. A macdonalds meal is under £4 depending which you have. A packed lunch is as cheap as you make it. The jurors canteen is usually subsidised although not best quality - IIRC a meal was about £4.50.

That leaves enough out of your £5.71 for a cup of coffee. There were water dispensers in the jury room as well so no one went thirsty.

I'm self employed and the money you can claim would not cover my lost earnings. I'd still happily do it but am exempt for medical reasons. Got called once and had no issue getting excused, I just phoned them.

If I was called for jury service it would be financially catastrophic for our family. I am the sole earner. I'd probably lose my job, not just not get paid. My job has to be done, I'm the only person doing it, if I'm not there they might well get someone else in.

I'm sure your time is MUCH more important than anyone else'sPip, perhaps we should just leave JS to retired folks, after all they have nothing to do at all, do they?

I'm not saying that my time is more important at all. I did 3 weeks of JS.
What I am saying is that the OP isn't having to worry about childcare, losing out on wages, dealing with missing deadlines at work.........
She dos have the right to bitch about it on here, everyone can bitch about anything, but she's not going to get much sympathy from me.