Wealth inequality - we've been fooled

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I've read loads of threads recently about benefits: cuts, caps etc.It's all over the newspapers too. There's a massive sentiment that austerity is necessary, we can't afford a generous welfare system, benefits should only provide the most basic of needs. Without going into why we seem to accept all this without question, why is there so much focus on how much the poorest people have, and no focus at all on how much the richest have? The product of all the austerity propaganda seems to be that we've forgotten the massive increase in inequality in this country, that only the very richest benefit from.

inequalitybriefing.org/

So people in the middle bitch about the people at the bottom, but no-one seems to notice the people at the top creaming off all the profit. This affects everyone. Living standards of the very poorest and also those in the middle. We should be really angry about this. 20 years ago a professional, like a doctor or teacher, could afford a good family house in London and private education for their children. But wages have stagnated and living costs have rocketed, we're all worse off except for the very wealthiest.

I feel like there's a huge amount of focus on benefits scroungers, immigrants and none on what we can do to stop the gap between rich and middle/poor getting bigger and bigger and bigger. AIBU?

I'm happy to see the comments on here, though. You're all correct. John Hills from the LSE has a good diagram showing the 'long tail' - just how much more the 0.01% have got than the rest of us.

I think that is part of the collective delusion: this idea that anybody could 'make it'. When the odds are so hugely stacked against the vast majority of the population.

Oh, the information is all out there, but it seems to be too painful for many people to even look at.
And impossible to accept as accurate.

Yep, feel the pain, or watch Britain's Got Talent?
Anyway, what is the point? Anyone posing a genuine threat to the status quo would be disgraced or have nasty accident pretty quickly.

Oh and re conspiracy theories- I've thought about this a lot and come to the conclusion that it is essentially a conspiracy theory in sort of fragmented, cumulative way. You take a) lots of people working day and night for decades to further their own interests often by very shady means b) the cumulative power of money and entrenched influence c) political lobbying and donations d) many many mutually beneficial arrangements and relationships between business, the rich, policy makers and the media. No, they didn't get in a room together 20 years ago and explicitly map this out, but the end result, and the goal, via countless individual actions and individual motivations is exactly the same.

Classic slight of hand and diversion tactics, look at the poor, look at how much they have!! All the while a small elite run off with all the loot.

Just look at the frothing at the mouth the mention of benefits brings on here. People passing edicts on others lifestyles, discussing living beyond ones means etc, served up with vicious bile and much rhetoric.

However, anyone who is a success has worked for it, but fails to check their own privilege and note the advantages they have had. Gosh everyone on mumsnet has worked blooming hard from the bottom, if that were true there would have been no middle classes in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s.

No one ever mentions the massive subsidies paid to landowners, the benefits reaped by landlords, the ability of the wealthy to hide or cut their wealth off from taxation. Whats mine is mine and whats yours is mine as well, seems to be their mantra.

Have you noticed there's a TV programme to suit each policy introducing another cut?

There have been quite a few articles in the more left wing press saying how such high inequality is not beneficial to the economy. The more money an individual has, the more they will save, thus not benefitting the economy. People on lower incomes have to spend all their money (and often some they haven't got) just to survive.
Also, people on lower income pay proportionally more tax as practically everything has VAT.

YABVVVVVU. i think more than a third of the tax paid in this country comes from the richest 1-2 %, schools and hospitals wouldn't function without them.

This has been doing the rounds on Facebook for the last few weeks and sums it all up perfectly!

Those who have the power and influence to stop it sadly have their nose in the trough so dont want to.

We hear about it again and again but nothing is ever done beyond 'reviews' and folliwing that the now obligatory 'lessons will be learned' platitude. This goes for bankers scams, government quangos and the NHS shambles to name but a few.

can you back that up Charis?
Obviously an individual in top 1% pays more tax but as a % of their income, it is probably lower than someone in the bottom 25%. "A good accountant pays for themselves".
Russian billionaires don't flock to London to pay more tax they come because the tax system here benefits the rich.

You can look it up, fluffcake.

Oh and re conspiracy theories- I've thought about this a lot and come to the conclusion that it is essentially a conspiracy theory in sort of fragmented, cumulative way. You take a) lots of people working day and night for decades to further their own interests often by very shady means b) the cumulative power of money and entrenched influence c) political lobbying and donations d) many many mutually beneficial arrangements and relationships between business, the rich, policy makers and the media. No, they didn't get in a room together 20 years ago and explicitly map this out, but the end result, and the goal, via countless individual actions and individual motivations is exactly the same.

Charis1

Yes the wealthiest pay about 30 % of all income tax, however income tax only amounts to 25% of the entire tax take. the biggest taxes are those on consumption which the poor pay a far higher percentage of their income to. Data see, use it at your peril.

Also, the wealthiest benefit from living in the society that they contribute to, in fact they benefit more than anyone else because the society facilitates their wealth creation, without it they wouldn't be able to make and protect their wealth. They should contribute more.

And we voted the Tories back in..........

schools and hospitals wouldnt function without the many people who work in them like the cleaners who are on low wages.

YANBU. The trouble is the middle, the poor and the strugglings don't see the very rich as taking it away from them because they are few, remote, almost unreal. How many have met a Russian Oligarch or a hedge fund manager. Their kids don't go to school with yours and you don't see them in the Doctor's surgery or the supermarket.

The slightly-poorer-than-you though - you see all the time and they seem to be in direct competition with your child or your family. It is you or them for the council house or the next appointment or the free school trip so the perceived unfairness is real and immediate.

It did get worse under Labour and is still getting worse and is damaging our society quite badly.

This and the fact that 'benefits' just benefit the rich anyway - they are a state subsidy for private landlords (who get the housing benefit) and corporations (who pay rubbish wages and expect them to be subsidised by tax credits).

It's a complete mess. All subsidies should be removed, and interest rates should be whacked up as well to stop this reliance on debt, which is just another form of control.

The demographic changes (age related) over the next few years will be very, very interesting. I can see more and more young people - and by that, I mean anyone under 40 today - and also anyone over that without a house - realising that work really doesn't pay.

I've been banging on about this for years and people didn't listen.

The same people are listening now as they hit their thirties, and realise they earn over twice the local mean wage, and can't buy a house at all. These are super smart people and they are being disenfranchised.

I think an increasing amount will opt out of full time work altogether, because you simply cannot get on with life (in the conventional sense) anymore unless you're in a dual income relationship where both earn 50k+. And how long will that last when kids come along and you want a balanced life.....

Interesting times.

And of course in my post I was talking about people who are, in any relative sense, doing very well. God only knows how people on the real medium incomes cope. The debt pushers probably have the answer to that one.

Divide and rule.

And working tax credits are another subsidy for corporations, allowing them to pay their staff low pay. Particularly galling when said corporation pays minimum amount of tax.

Yanbu

Society is so selfish and individualist, very Tory. Some people don't want everyone to have a good life but want to compete and have more for themselves. This slating of those on benefits has become brutal. We should all be better off than years ago not much worse off and going backwards. We need more compassion. Can't see it happening though 24% of people don't care as long as they are feeling superior.

I only have to look at my own company to see how, since the 'financial crisis', an increasingly greater slice of the pie is being taken by the people at the top.

Anyone who works for a public company should take a look at the figures for their executives over the last 7 years - they are published and online for all listed companies.

Take a look at the graph for compensation for the big wigs.

Now wait until you're given your sub inflation 'cost of living' rise, or worse. Ask for more and its 'the coffers are empty'.

And watch for the new mercedes turning up like clockwork the monday after.

I'll help you out on accurate figures there, Charis.

On HMRC projections, the top 1% of IT payers paid 26.5% of the money taken in income tax, having made 13% of the declared income.

The top 5% have 25% of the declared income.

After tax, the top 1% have 10% of the declared income, and the top 5% have 21% (all figures rounded).

Fluff - I agree with you on working tax credits. It's an utter scandal that businesses are subsidised so that they get one of their main inputs at below the cost of supply, courtesy of the taxpayer.

You might have been fooled, most of us have an idea about the unfairness of the world.
Your basic problem is capitalism. You want to make an inherently unfair system more fair. Never gonna happen.