To think that a 23k benefits cap will drive some families in the SE

[Minifingers9]

... Into destitution?

I live in a pretty unappealing and comparatively cheap part of greater London but you can't get a 3 bedroom rental for under £1400 a month.
If we lost our jobs we wouldn't be able to live on 23k a year as a family of 5. Not when 15k of it was going on rent.
Why don't they have regional benefit caps?

For the people saying your boss doesn't give you a raise for having kids do you forget your child benefit and tax credits go up? The tories are doing an excellent job at starting a class war.

A good example of this was Perth Australia until recently. Supply and demand meant cleaners were earning £50,000 in the mines and so in theory cleaning staff in the city could demand £50,000 to work in the city.

But of course you can imagine what kept the wages low. But costs of living rocketed.

I feel I should also point out that there are more people seeking jobs than there are jobs available. That's even without pointing out the huge amount of people unqualified for available jobs.

Because then you're self-employed so not subject to some of the same restrictions. If you're 'working' enough hours you can claim working tax credit. That sort of thing.

Plus, knitted mice. Who doesn't want a knitted mouse. ....?

Exactly Tonberry ... The Mumsnet mouse is the next big thing, you heard it here first !

For the people saying your boss doesn't give you a raise for having kids do you forget your child benefit and tax credits go up? The tories are doing an excellent job at starting a class war

Nothing to do with the tories. I have always held that view.

Under Universal Credit self employed people will have to make minimum wage every week. The HMRC page on working tax credit shows that it's not going to be as easy to declare an unprofitable business now. This will have all sorts of repercussions especially for S.E people in the start-up phase.

Was discussing this with older family yesterday. They wanted to know whatever happened to can't afford it don't buy it or rent it or do it. It seems to be totally lost these days. Also why should people be helped with house buying if they can't afford it don't do it.

I must say I agree with some of it. My oh and I where ok until I stopped work due to disability. No we make choices about what we don't need and want and are planning to move away as we can't afford a bungalow in Herts where we live. And that is what I now need. But will go on struggling and no holidays extras etc. until we can move.

We couldn't afford a big enough flat for two children in London. So we moved. Lots of people do. It would be crazy for the state to subsidise people to stay in London.

I do agree though that in the very short term, there should be more help. If a single parent loses their job, for instance, it makes sense for them to stay where they have support networks etc, so they should be enabled to pay their rent while they find a new job, Imo. But in the long term, no. If you can't afford to live in London you can't live there.

It probably will. But the thing us someone voted these cretins in didn't they, or at least didn't vote them out. I think people will be a lot less sympathetic over the next 5 years. Like I said people knew who they were voting in or not voting out.

The knitted mouse will have to sell at minimum wage. So a two hour mouse, tools and postage will make for ££££ knitted mice.

Good lord the empathy for others on here is shocking.

23k is not a lot of money for a family to live on, especially as if you are in the South East most will go on rent. I live in London and love it, but those espousing "if you can't afford it don't live there" are entirely callous.

So because someone is down on their luck they should leave their family and community, the places they know to live somewhere which is cheaper for the government? Bollocks.

Very few people "live off" benefits, you smug entitled folks on here need to check your privilege, remember there but for the grace of god...

your employer may not raise your wages but if you are low waged tax credits and child benefit will top up your wages when you have a child (thus allowing employers to continue to pay shit wages and use zero hours contracts)

Sorry. Here's the relevant bit:

Most self-employed people are eligible for Working Tax Credit.

You won’t be eligible if the Tax Credit Office believes your self-employed hours are uncommercial or unprofitable. For example, you may not qualify if you don’t:

make a profit
have good business records
work regularly
try to expand your business
follow any regulations, eg by not having the right insurance if you’re a driver
You may be investigated if the average hourly profit from your self-employed time is less than the National Minimum Wage

So is there a wtc advantage scamgoing on them?

23k in benefits , what would someone earning have to be paid to get a net salary of 23k.I wish I earned 23k gross!

Longtimelurker. What are you on about. I would like to live in a bungalow which suits my needs. I can't afford one so have to go elsewhere. My oh and I worked full time me until my disability got worse. We didn't have children , we couldn't afford them and therefore did other things.

What's the difference why should some people be topped up by the government to lead a champagne lifestyle on a beer budget.

Exactly candlesandlight

23k is 2 x full time minimum wage salaries - before take-offs. Seems overly generous to give that to a family that don't work and expect them to manage.

The Great Knitted Mice Racket

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the argument that people will be " destitute" on a tax free cash gift of £23 000 a year and may have to move!!! Only on Mn!

Angelis, so that works out about 15 pounds an hour if working hmmmm....maybe everyone should talk about the benefit cap in terms of a gross salary equivalent, put some perspective on it.
Yes people need help but let's all be honest there are people who have made the choice to live on benefits, not surprising at that rate

The cap only applies to families on full benefits with no worker. If they can't afford to live in an expensive area them they have to move. No different to workers paying their own rent choosing an area within their budget.

If they don't want to move then they find employment to find their choice.

At £23k it's still very high, far more than a lot of people earn for actually working!