To think that a 23k benefits cap will drive some families in the SE

[Minifingers9]

... Into destitution?

I live in a pretty unappealing and comparatively cheap part of greater London but you can't get a 3 bedroom rental for under £1400 a month.
If we lost our jobs we wouldn't be able to live on 23k a year as a family of 5. Not when 15k of it was going on rent.
Why don't they have regional benefit caps?

Morethan, don't worry I can afford my DC and tax payers aren't picking up my bills or childcare. That's because I chose to work and help provide for my family rather than do nothing and claim.

There are so many better uses for taxes than benefits for those that won't work or don't work enough to cover their lifestyles choices. I'd rather we had extra nurses, GPs, teachers etc than pay somebody to stay home all day or just do a few hours work.

Too depressed by this thread to say much more than this: even if people don't believe anyone should have a 'right' to live in London, surely we don't want a London that nobody but international bankers can afford to live in? I don't want our capital city to be an international capitalists' playground, where families and communities are splintered and dispersed so that the super-rich can buy up the lot (not to live in, but in order to get even richer).

I certainly don't think the State should pay for me to live on the Queen's doorstep, but I think it's a pretty good idea for the country's capital to include communities that are broadly representative of humanity.

It is now about 12 hours since I started work today and I have a lot more to go. Perhaps I should take the more sensible course of giving up all work and just taking benefits as a single mother.

(Yes, Tuppence to cross the mersey is a good book on poverty. I bought the series again when my mother was dying and she read the 3 books in the series and enjoyed them just before she died. She was bored slowly dying at home and liked that kind of book)

Wow, you must be very rich to not need help with childcare.
Who did you donate your cb too?

So now its the workers fault for not earning enough. Naughty workers should hold the employers to ransome for more money. They just don't do enough do they little

You are very fortunate if you are financially prepared for whatever life may throw at you which also makes me feel you have had some help on your way.

There's an old saying about being nice to people on your way up, because you will need them on the way down. But hey, you don't need or ever will need help.

I bloody loved those books when I was about twelve. Helen Forrester's parents were naice middle class people who had never had to earn a living before and were plunged into poverty after mismanaging their private incomes, debt, credit and having seven children (and a full staff)

They were much more clueless, feckless and wasteful than the people who had always been poor weren't they? It made their situation a lot worse.

And there is nothing natural and inevitable about London being so hugely expensive. It hasn't always been this way, as I think was said upthread. Successive governments have been complicit in this happening and they do carry some responsibility for the results.

Oh and those nurses little

I know several who have tax credits because they aren't paid enough, only work a few hours because that's their contract.
Do you live in the real world at all.

It affects so few though that it won't make a huge difference at present but does send a message at least that the gravy train is ending.
Little my dh is in great pain, each and every day. He is in pain both physically and mentally. Can you imagine what it's like to go from being a fit and active philosophy lecturer to being in so much pain, or so drugged that you can barely read? Can you imagine how depressed that makes you? And then, on top of all that, people like you make statements like the above. How do you think that makes us feel? How do you think it makes us feel when we read: It's not hard to imagine that having numerous children and then losing your income will mean the children will suffer financially but many don't even think about the future . When we know we did what we could. How do you think we feel having gone from £90,000 p.a. to 15,000? It's comments like these that make dh feel suicidal. No, I'm not being dramatic, I'm being realistic. Suicide has increased among disabled people during the cuts. We are affected. They have a very real impact upon the lives of people, as do the negative comments, and whilst some make it very clear that they don't mean people with disabilities, you have made it clear that you wish to include those with those feckless bastards with disabilities.
In any other realm this would be bullying, in fact it is bullying, government sanctioned bullying.

There are disabilities and disabilities. FIL was on disability benefit for about 15 years following accident at work, after first cap on benefits was introduced it turned out he can work just fine. His quality of life improved, as he is more socially stimulated and he has more disposable income every month.

Please stop with this struggle of all disabled people. Yes, there are some conditions which require carers and limit working ability but there are plenty that not.

I thought if you were claiming DLA, the benefit cap did not apply.

but in Twopence To Cross The Mersey the parents had no idea how to manage on very little money, how to cook, how to care for the kids, because they had never had to. also the mum was so ill that she felt smoking helped her 'nerves' a common held belief at the time

The dad had NO skills for hard labour or dock work and the mum had no skills full stop - it's not really a case of 'they wasted the money' nor really comparable to modern times

People struggling are often paying debt - not spending their benefit on booze and fags - fuel debt, debt they had before losing their jobs, debt they have to have because the washing machine or cooker blows up and they can';t but one outright... etc

My dh has a disability that isn't even recognised in this country.
he doesn't get any benefits but I sah and help him with the office work to lessen his work.
he does work and is lucky that he can continue, it is his own business so doesn't get sick pay. If he is hospitalised he loses money, we lose money.
sometimes, its easy to point the finger and say look at them, what they are getting etc.
Some people need to open their eyes, listen to what others say and walk a mile in somebody else's shoes.
There are so many people on these threads worse off than my dh, but just because I don't mention it doesn't mean that everything in our garden is rosey, how many more on here are the same, probably dozens.

You couldn't be more wrong morethan, nobody helped me or DH out bar ourselves. After an awful childhood, I had no illusions that only myself could ever be relied on.

We both have good work ethics and becoming parents didn't suddenly take that away. If anything, work is needed more then than ever as more mouths to feed and experiences to be had.

You don't have to be rich to afford childcare, adults can work around each other, they can limit the number of children they have etc or stagger them. The costs are only for a short period pre school and school aged its very doable to work. Neither of us are anywhere near being a higher rate tax payer yet manage perfectly fine as we budget and don't make choices we can't afford.

Dawn that is pretty terrible, and I'm sure was unforeseen. But what's the answer? You've had a drop of £75,000 in income, that is a lot.

But l think there needs to be a cap as £23,000 should be enough. And if it's not then changes (to where you live, how you live ) need to eventually be made.

It's such an emotive subject and rightly so. It should be debated and thrashed out. And l will get flamed, but a different mindset needs to happen.

Most major cities only the wealthy can afford to live in the nice bits. Why would London be any different?

I thought that if you were claiming DLA, the benefit cap didn't apply. Or if you were working. Plus some other exemptions. Am I wrong? This came up earlier and I noted it because I didn't know it before.

Well evey your FIL was obviously no longer disabled then. And wasn't on DLA since the cap doesn't affect that. So you are talking about an entirely different situation.

Littlemonstersrule

that's great - brilliant - I left home at 17 and worked - put my self through uni, my post grad, found work got my first house, got married - had kids we could afford - claimed nothing but CB ...

then he left I was a working loan parent of 3 - reliant on tax credits to pay my childcare

short of giving one child away that is just how it is

perfect lives can change in a fucking heartbeat and suddenly affordability changes

Little

In that case, as neither of you are hr taxpayers you'd be well up shit creak if really bad times fell upon you.
What if one or both of you were unable to work, or afford your mortgage, or any other thing that may befall you?
Would you like somebody telling you that you should lose the support you have by placing a cap on the financial support you are getting? Especially as you have had it pointed out to you that it will be hard for many to survive such cuts.
You have been very lucky to have sailed through without hardship, many others aren't so lucky.

LITTLEMONSTERS, I am 46 years old. When I had my oldest who is nearly 17, I had bought my own place(on my own, not with anyone), had a good job and went back to work when she was 6 months old. I stayed working for another 7 years and then had my youngest. When she was 7 months old I woke up one morning unable to move my legs. 9 years on I've had spine surgery, need more surgery, take a cocktail of drugs to get me through each day and wish more than anything to be fit and healthy again. I can walk, at a snail's pace but am riddled with pain and utterly exhausted.

My dp is 57. He's a military veteran who served in the Falklands and was badly burned when his ship was bombed. He spent an hour waiting to be helicoptered off the back of the ship which was burning and sinking. Since then he's always worked until his accident 18 months ago. I am lucky he's alive after suffering such horrific injuries.

We had savings. They have long gone. We used them in the first four months as it took that long to sort out benefits. We got food vouchers from the British legion and money from a Falklands association to help pay bills.

Between us we have worked for over 70 years. We had no plans to be disabled or have a woman pull out in front of him. Your attitude that we are all feckless idiots who haven't planned for the future is laughable.

Have you read dawns posts? She tells a similar story but you seem to think it's something we should have planned for.

I work full time as a teacher, and work in London. However, as a single mum, I can't afford to live in London, so I live in Slough and commute to work. I don't feel that the state should top up my wages so I can afford to live in London, even though I would like to. Living in the most expensive part of the UK is not a right or entitlement. To prevent worries about having your circumstances changing if you are laid off, you should have savings. Building these savings might mean moving to a cheaper area to start with. Benefits are a safety net, and are meant to ensure that you can afford the necessities of life such as basic shelter and food, not to ensure that you can live a particular lifestyle. I've had a few months on benefits before and it wasn't easy - but that's the POINT. It isn't supposed to be easy on benefits!!!

Head of nail, meet hammer.

Desk. meet head.

There's a lack of logic to benefit bashing.

Most benefit income is spent on shelter, food, clothes. Live or die essentials.

People begrudge this but how is it any different from the taxpayer funding health or education for those who can't afford it?

I totally agree with TTWK. I absolutely cannot see how it is the rest of the country's responsibility to pay out benefits to allow people to continue to live in an area they simply can't afford. How is that fair or even logical. It's madness.

There is no logic, it's all emotional.
People believe what they read and hear on tv, times are hard and there is a lot of jealousy from those who work and struggle.
They don't understand that others struggle too, whether they work or not.
There seems to be such a lot of store put upon working as though it makes you a better person. I don't get it either, those complaining it's so grand on benefit use the pride as a get out clause when you mention they should try it.