To be quite angry about proposed changes to 3-4yo childcare- only for ALL working parents?

[AcademicOwl]

Ok, Queen's speech.
Proposal to increase 'free'* childcare to 30hrs for 3-4 year olds.

BUT only if all parents working.

As I understand, the current provision for 3-4 yo there are no caveats re parents working. So ok for SAHMs & SAHDs. Gives children chance to socialise pre-school, parents to find feet again and possibly find work.

I've got 2 DC under 5, and worked 3 days a week, so understand costs of childcare (I.e. Two in childcare = more than I earn by about £200pcm). Expecting DC 3 in Oct, so was considering a year out on a career break... Help make costs manageable, support family whilst they are titchy, etc. but DC 2 prob wouldn't be eligible for 'free' childcare if I do that.

Can't help but feel this is discriminating against SAHPs & again undervaluing the importance of parenting choices and the family unit...

What'd you want to bet they'll remove current 'free' provision?

*'free' because in our patch it isn't. The nursery work out how much money it contributes to your monthly bill, then you have to make up difference.and, yes, they are allowed to do that... I investigated at length a couple of years ago.

Grrrr!!!!

I still find it baffling that you received so much help to enable you to SAH but begrudge a tiny bit of help to those who take a different path to you.
Do you not value the work other people do at all ?
Don't you shop, use a leisure centre, hospital, buses, GPs etc

Your argument only makes sense if you live in a bubble where you do all these things for yourself and never use the services we pay people to do ??

I should add I don't have a problem at all with you SAH( I did for a bit) - its the not wanting those who WOH to receive any help I find very strange indeed and a bit hypocritical as said up thread.

namechange

Where have I said I begrudge anybody anything?
In fact, on several occasions I have stated that I don't.
I haven't received "so much help" to enable sah, but I'm thankful for what we have received and by no means see it as something to be entitled to. I just took it like many others did and do.
Many people believe that those who receive tc are raking in money they aren't earning. It's means tested and cut dramatically from what it was.
This means that those who previously received it and don't, need to find work and childcare, I'm not stupid.
Means testing wouldn't affect the groups you describe above, they are hardly raking it in. However, just the same as tc, cb and other benefits aren't open to the super rich I believe that free childcare shouldn't be. If a family income is really high surely they can foot their own childcare costs.
My only other fear is unrelated and one of practicality in the available spaces left for the universal 15 hours. But as that hasn't been discussed by the gov yet, I'm not objecting on these grounds.
Anyway, off to collect dd from orchestra now, but wanted to reply to the assumption that I had begrudged anybody of help with childcare.

Im just going on your informing us that TC enabled you to be a SAHP morethan as you have told us many times

OK so you support this for WOHP who are not super rich then -ie most WOHP!
Hurrah we agree

< sprinkles peace and love on the thread>

Morethan you are very funny. Yes I do know how business and tax works. I also know shitloads about fraud and fraudulent manipulation.

Any news on when we will find out the details of this?

I can only find "by 2017"
So no clear details yet.

Blimey, hillingdon I'm certainly not menopausal seeing as I'm 20/40 pregnant!!! hormonal, maybe...

I think my original point was lost in this wider debate; I worry about the 15hrs early years education being removed. I think that important for every child.

If it makes anyone feel better, I don't resent ANYONE getting help from the state (the only thing I've ever claimed was maternity allowance during one pregnancy, tax credits for about a year and child benefit). I believe strongly in looking after the most vulnerable in society. And, yes, I believe in general taxation and in some instances universal benefit (not least in part so that we don't create social stigma for children who do/don't benefit).

But I still have concerns about the narrative - the value this policy places on SAH parents (esp mothers) - and the aforementioned 15hrs.
As for the comments on saving etc prior to children, there is a definite divide here; many ppl now are trapped in home rental and that's really tough, both in the short & long term. Housing is indeed one of the biggest crises in the UK, I think.
Anyway, It's ok; from reading some posts, no one is listening to me anymore I'll live...

I really don't think that policies are formed thinking " Oh lets discriminate against SAHM" when they are giving this to people who need CC.
No where has it been proposed that the 15 hours will be removed.

Really lets stop all the " Im a victim" type of posts and thinking from SAHP, its quite unnecessary and focus on what this policy really means- hopefully some women will have more choice and children will be lifted out of poverty.
I missed the menopause reference ???
What has that got to do with anything ???

In response to the response ages ago to my question about childcare being as much as one person's salary, it still IS a SHARED cost between parents and so it does 't always make sense to have one person stop work. Too many omen take the hit on their salary or their careers because some men and some couples just assume it's the woman who will.

I only have one lot of childcare costs and they will dramatically reduce this September when DS starts school (aged 5) - I am really glad that I stuck at it.

There's a lot of good points on here.

My personal opinion is that the marker will be what they offer children in care- if CIC get the 30 hrs regardless of whether or nor a foster carer is working (some can and do) then I'd say the extra 15 hours steers more towards being education rather than childcare. If not, then I'd say the extra 15 would be more childcare.

I'm basing this opinion on the current 10 hours free for 2 year olds which does include CIC.

What would happen to the self employed? Would they qualify for it?

Hi namechange it's from a post where the op (that's me!) was queried as being menopausal.

I just wanted to clarify.

As far as SAH parents, I'm not one (at the mo) and recognise the cost of child care, indeed it might be that cost which is the tipping factor for me being SAH for a bit. I'm buggered if I'm going to accrue debt on nursery fees at £300-400+ per month of money we just don't have!

But seeing things from other shoes shouldn't be that hard for any of us, should it? We all make different choices (hopefully for most it's a choice); so supporting each other really shouldn't be hard, should it?

I've been genuinely shocked by the strength of voices accusing SAH (?victims; seriously, what?) vs working (?strong role models; yes, but surely not the only important type of role model?). At what point did this turn into taking sides? It feels very regressive.

Of course I support any gov measure which supports parents; i still just worry about this one... (See my previous posts)

Troll I really cannot make it any clearer. I think you are deliberately not understanding my posts.

The childcare providers are saying the rate the Government pays is far too low. They have said again and again that they are struggling to offer the 15 hours and most definitely can't afford to offer the 30 hours.

Whether or not people want my services is irrelevant. I can't provide those services for free as the Government expects us to do. Yet you talk about us having savings and a pension when the Government is proposing to double the free hours that I currently subsidise.

Either you are exceedingly poor at maths, or you couldn't care less that, far from your Utopia of happy childcarers with money and pensions, this will put me out of business.

Something I strongly suspect the Government wants.

All this squabbling over who gets/deserves it is also irrelevant when, as things stand, no-one will be getting it!

I note with great interest that the Government has also stopped referring to "good quality" provision.

If you want quality childcare, it has to be paid for. Put accountants in charge of childcare and the quality is adversely affected because they are only interested in saving money - Government money, not parents.

When you're offered something free by a penny pinching Government, look at who will really pay for their apparent generosity.

It will be the childcarers themselves and the parents of 0-3 year olds who will experience the raised fees necessary to give you your free childcare.

Ah here we go:
www.gov.uk/government/news/government-brings-forward-plans-to-double-free-childcare-for-working-families So what does 600,000 refer to?

From a quick look there are approximately 1.4 million 3 and 4 year olds.

Just heard coming in sept 2016 so I could benefit. No idea how it will work though as dd will be part time school nursery by than. Will she get a full time place but have to pay for lunch club assuming I am work by than but child of sah will only go part time? Surelty the 30 hours will than become education and in theory sah children could lose out. Incidently dd will be 4 in sept 16 and if dhe was born a few days early would aready be in reception.

Also wondering howvmany hours you will have to work to qualify and how they trest self employment.

Modt 4 years olds will be in reception in September so no resl change there.

By my rough calculations taking into account twins, blended families and multiple births in less than two years I reckon they think this will help roughly 50% of families with 3 and 4 year olds. Does anyone know the stats on how many families have parents both working full time at this age?

I read part time workers will also qualify. Wonder how many hours you will need to do to qualify.

Ooh where was that cotswolds?

It was a pre election report telegraph online. Guess we will have to wait till tomorrow for details.

OP Sorry I was commenting on the fact that some SAHM feel victimised by this policy.
Its a bit like me feeding my dog- dog food and my cat being cross about it when the cat doesn't eat dog food anyway -

Oh so menopausal is now being used as an insult
How strange when it is something all women will go through

Interesting to hear this from a provider POV- I wonder if the 24/7 NHS is going to be a similar challenge ?( Cant fulfil needs now ,let alone all services 24/7)
Those working in the NHS are just laughing about it ,its so ridiculous!

Loving the working mum's income goes on cars and handbags. I've just passed my driving test and can't afford a car despite working. That's life, I share with DH. We don't get childcare help from tax credits due to DH being a full time student and he doesn't get childcare help from student loans due to me working. So we suck it up and pay. If someone who is studying to improve their job prospects gets no childcare provided then no way should someone who chooses not to work. The early years provision is a seperate matter to the new proposal as far as I can see. It is right that the 30 hours is for working people only, the country cannot afford to provide childcare for people to stay at home. Disclaimer I do not count families who need help due to disability, illness etc in this. I'm talking about healthy adults and children.