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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

About cleaner?

44 replies

Elfina · 27/05/2015 13:44

We live in just a two bed flat, and pay the cleaner to come for two hours a week. She came an hour early today (no problem at all), and I went out and about. An hour later I saw her walking away from the flat (just coincidence as I was passing).

The flat is clean enough; I think an hour is enough to do a general clean, but one of the reasons I wanted a cleaner was that I hoped that if there was extra time she would do the less regular things, like behind the sofas/beds or something! I haven't had this discussion with her (as to be honest I assumed that maybe the general clean was taking an hour).

Am IBU? I'm not sure whether I'm just being mean??

OP posts:

BallsforEarrings · 27/05/2015 22:12

I wouldn't pay by the hour personally as I would want the work agreed with before hand rather than have someone tootle around doing not so much or whatever they feel like for a set time.

We are a high quality detailed service and always provide a service list of what the price includes, if you don't get one of these at the beginning it will always be open to interpretation of what an individual can complete within a 'time'.

If it were for my own home I would want a detailed service list of which jobs are always done and which on rotation and how much for extras and deep cleans etc.

This is the way we sell it and we keep our clients for years and always run a waiting list apart from when we have just hired a new team. It's important to offer value for money I think.

I don't like the 'hourly rate' model it's just too variable, how do you know what you will get with any particular cleaner unless it is laid out at the start?

That's just how I would like it, I know some are happy with a quick zoom round within a set time but I'm really picky to be truthful, if I were paying I'd want to know what for.

I see some have advised to only choose an hourly rate cleaner in future but I disagree, I think make sure they provide a clear service list so you both know what they have to deliver within their rotas at every visit. Make sure it's a detailed list.

dustarr73 · 28/05/2015 09:42

I just dont understand why you didnt stop her when you seen her.It would have been easier on both parts,cause now she can say it wasnt her.

AmyElliotDunne · 28/05/2015 09:57

She's obviously not a great cleaner if she's not doing a thorough job and not even staying for the allotted time.

I used to clean a 4 bed home really thoroughly in 2 hours, dusted everywhere, properly cleaned all bathrooms and kitchen, hoover, mop.

I was paid £20 for 2 hours. Most weeks it took me just over 2, sometimes as much as 2.5, but I didn't want to leave without mopping as to me, the last bit is the one that makes all the difference. Sometimes when I was working really fast and there wasn't much to clear up in the kitchen etc I'd be done in 1hr45 and would leave a bit early.

If I had extra time there were other jobs I could have done and quite often did extras like hang out washing, but for all the long days I did, I would sometimes just take the extra 15 mins. It's about give and take and the owner got an excellent job every week regardless of how long it took. The only difference was how exhausted I was afterwards!

Original poster

Elfina · 28/05/2015 10:01

Dust, I didn't stop her as I was passing 9 a bus! I was about to go into town to spend the remaining hour!

Balls that sounds brilliant! Don't suppose you work in South London? !

OP posts:

florentina1 · 28/05/2015 10:17

If you continue to employ her or get someone new, I'm would make list of things that need doing. Either one list overall or specific list for each room.

In 2 hours I would list

Wash and thoroughly clean all surfaces, including paintwork, ledges, skirtings, tiles,floors and taps.

Dust and polish all wooden furniture.

Vacuum floors.

It might be better to train an existing cleaner to do things your way rather than start afresh. No need to be confrontational, just leave the note saying

NAME, would you please do all the following for me,

Vycount · 28/05/2015 10:25

As an ex cleaner... thinking of one house as an example - in 2 hours I'd clean a family bathroom, cloakroom with just a loo and sink and kitchen. Then wash all of those floors (doesn't take long). Damp dust 3 tidy bedrooms and a lounge-diner and vac the house top to bottom. Didn't really have time to do much else, but if I had a spare 10 minutes I would whip out the "magic cloths" and quickly clean a couple of windows inside. Keeping everything up to scratch meant that I had time to clean all the windows inside on a sort of mental rota. So I think you need to re-visit this agreement with your cleaner and come up with a list of what needs to be done.
Ironing within a 2 hour clean is a bit time-consuming, by the time you've got everything out etc, I tried to avoid doing that anyway as I hate ironing.

I would have hated having a list tbh, but then I never short-changed anyone and was paid well as a result (£12.50 per hour).

dustarr73 · 28/05/2015 10:28

Ha op you should have text her from the bus and gave her a little wave.Her face would have been priceless.

DragonRojo · 28/05/2015 10:33

I have had this situation before and I ended up getting rid of her. She lost my trust so I decided to start afresh with someone else

WanderingAboutRandomly · 28/05/2015 10:47

I'd get rid too. The trust is gone.

I always spell out to my cleaners before I employ them that I want them to be working for the entire time I pay them (minus a fag break) and that I don't like any leaving early even if it by 10 minutes. My latest cleaner has been with me for 6 years and is brilliant. She never takes the piss and works really hard. I pay well and am very flexible if she needs to go home (overseas).

Original poster

Elfina · 28/05/2015 11:55

How about if I send a text saying "hi X. I'm just wondering whether it might be useful to have a list of things we would like done in the two hours? Let me know. Thanks, Elf".

Is that PA? I don't want to be I just hate confrontation.

OP posts:

PeterParkerSays · 28/05/2015 12:14

You really need to talk to her about the standard of her cleaning. Can you arrange a review meeting with her now she's been there a while and discuss with her the drips / dust that aren't being done and how this isn't acceptable, then look at what she is doing every time so you can see what's being missed?

Don't give her the option of choosing other non-urgent jobs to do in the 2 hours if she isn't cleaning the place properly to start with. She can start by filling up those 2 hours with the missed cleaning and then you can see how much spare time there is and what you want done with it.

BallsforEarrings · 28/05/2015 13:40

Sorry OP our service area is far away from London and we are running a waiting list until I can hire an train again but if I could help I would.

I think because she openly said to you it would be two hours the first time and then variable time you cannot really mention time as that is not the nature of her service and she did say this to you in the beginning and to be fair, I would not allow a client to suddenly decide we had sold a 'time' to her when we that is not our business model and I would not keep such a client on our books as i would feel it to be undermining of our terms BUT I would most definitely expect to be pulled up on not completing the various tasks within the service, it just cannot be done properly within an hour unless she has employed an assistant to clean with her - you saw her alone so I'm guessing not!

The work was substandard and if you ask for her to make a little more effort to complete all the dusting (other jobs she misses etc) she will have no choice but to spend a decent amount of time for you and your flat will be cleaned properly.

That's if you want to give her another chance but I'd be tempted to try someone else and get the terms set out and ask for a service list of what they include in the price from the start either a hard copy or by email, check these things ARE being done as and when they said they would be too and refer back to the document if they are being missed, with 'as per our original agreement, please could you make sure x, y and z are done as promised to me at the beginning of our arrangement!

If it's in writing there is no leg to stand on if it is not done!

Justusemyname · 28/05/2015 13:42

It's not PA. it's being wet.

Do you feel happy with what she had done? If not, get rid.

BritabroadinAsia · 28/05/2015 14:04

I don't think you should ask her if she would 'find a list useful' - what are you going to do if she replies no thanks? I think you need to be a little more assertive.

I would write a detailed list of what you want to be done in the two hours, based on what pps here are telling you is reasonable, and ask her to do it. No ambiguity. You don't need to apologise for doing this - you don't want to end up feeling resentful of paying someone you think is taking the piss. I understand you not wanting a confrontation, but this isn't about getting angry, it's about asking for the service that you are paying for to be done properly.

Good luck - I know from past experience that it can be difficult negotiating with someone working in your home, but you will feel better for having addressed it.

BallsforEarrings · 28/05/2015 14:30

I think there needs to be some discussion as to what the cleaner will include within the scope of her service though. This does not seem to have been set out at all so it needs to be re-negotiated now.

It seems she's leaving some of the basics like dusting which you should address with a complaint rather than 'ask for' but as for asking for a list, it would need a discussion as to what is and isn't included. This always needs to be the case or there could be a misunderstanding, you can't just alter the scope of the service without a conversation to agree this.

I am on the panel of a domestic cleaning trade association (our members must prove they are operating professionally and provide insurance documents plus proof of tax registration btw). One of the questions we are most often asked by newbie cleaning services is that clients have asked for things for free and they want to take the client off their schedule for the cheek of it, I usually ask them if it was set out at the original agreement what would be included within the price and a lot say 'oops no' - your own fault then, lesson learned I will then encourage a communication about the scope of their service for the price they quoted. It's never too late for either party to start such a discussion but it can't come across either way as a 'demand' ie 'I will have this for free' or conversely 'I won't do it properly now because she asked for too much' it all needs adult negotiation and reasonable communication.

The service should know exactly what is included within their prices and so should the client, it's either dishonest or lacking in experience to not provide clear details up front, if more is asked for you can then get a new quote for this.

I am a huge fan of open communication rather than cleaners firing clients and clients firing cleaners but if even the basics are not being covered I'm not sure if there is a lot of hope for a fair deal in this case ...

londonrach · 28/05/2015 15:50

Just watched this documentary which was very interesting. www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b05xcwf9/modern-times-the-secret-life-of-cleaners

Original poster

Elfina · 28/05/2015 16:01

Sod it. I think the trust has gone. I think I'm going to find someone else and do what Balls has suggested and have a detailed list of what we'd like and how much time/cost it will incur for the cleaner.

Thanks all. I've learned a fair bit here, not least that I'm more more wet than I thought I was!

OP posts:

MrsJackAubrey · 28/05/2015 22:34

i think we may share a cleaner, OP! I pay for 4 hours a week; 3 hours to do the routine cleaning and an hour to do a 'project' each week - you know the stuff, maybe clean the oven, wash the skirting boards, empty and clean kitchen cupboards...

I'd say she does 3 hours max. I try not to think about it at all tbh as I'm too weedy to raise the issue.

Mind you I'd be pissed off with a gardener who was doing 45 minutes and charging me £20! I sacked my last gardener after he kept putting his prices up via his xmas card "happy xmas to all at the Aubrey's house and just to say my rate is going up from 1 Jan as usual by £1 an hr".

He was very surprised when I said, the second year this happened, that I wasn't prepared to pay more every year, where would it all end, in paying 50 quid an hour after 25 years??

RubyMay82 · 28/05/2015 23:13

I used to have a wee cleaning job & it was 2 hours every second Saturday,
It was give & take time wise as sometimes I would get caught up doing stuff & be there 2.5 hours so next time I would whip round & take the time back.
Think it's hard to get a decent cleaner & a lot probably do crack through it as quick as possible & bugger off tbh

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