to think hotels shouldn't invoice you for the toiletries?

[frangipani13]

Booked a weekend away for Dsis and DN for the former's birthday treat. DN must've got a bit carried away and took the mini shower gel/moisturiser home with her. B and B have left me a voice mail and sent an invoice for £44 quoting "stolen items" and threatening legal action if the invoice is unpaid. I've stayed in many many places of varying quality and have never experienced this. Has anyone else? AIBU to think this is a bit much?

I've stayed in hotels where I really like the product (large bottles only) and, if I'm a regular there, I ask them to get me a bottle and add it to my bill. They'll always oblige. I have so many now that I don't think I'll live long enough to use them all!

As OnIlkley says, the small bottles are quite difficult to use as they don't 'squash' easily so you have shake them like a mad thing.

Agree totally SuperFly that it's a mystery that people would steal large bottles. It's not the tampering as such - because who the hell would tamper with a bottle in a hotel? - but just because it's so obviously wrong. I don't think it's unhygienic particularly because the container is opened, product poured in, and closed again. Cleaners/bedroom staff do this. Goodness knows what guests do though... I'd never thought of them! Boak.

Now I know why I was asked to leave a security deposit for the first time ever during a recent business trip (chain hotel not B&B). I must look like someone who steals things from hotel rooms.

Maybe that should be policy instead of notices reminding people that stealing is wrong. Leave a deposit that is returned if you don’t steal the toiletries .

I have to say with the low cost of buying these toiletries bulk for the bnb and then charging the street retail price in such an unnecessarily nasty way sound a little bit like a swizz by the bnb.

I wonder how many nasty letters demanding the outrageously high 44£ top up charges they send to their guests, and how much it makes them when people pay without checking the invoice, or each other's bags out of embarrassment?
Nice little earner that is, innit?

I'm sure you don't, OIlkley

Venus... Really? Imagine how easily the hotels could be foiled though... guests staying in the room, using the products and NOT stuffing their bags full of contraband that the hotel doesn't intend for them to have. That would teach them, wouldn't it? Them and their pesky invoicing of thieves...

Lying I don't care if the hotel staff fill up bottles as hopefully they use disposable gloves when refilling them... however I am sure that certain people do more I am so sorry for putting thoughts into your mind - boak too! and that's really why (I'm not normally this OCD etc honest!) I wouldn't like them!

At least with the small bottles you can rest assured that only you or your room-mate's grubby little hands have used the small bottles!

I can see why some people would steal the larger bottles as it's a freebie innit?! but yes totally wrong. It's like me dancing into Trade Secrets or Boots and making off with their naice shampoo and conditioner. Not done.

OnIkley I think security deposits will be the way to go. I personally think it's very icky to steal bathrobes etc... just why?!

To all the posters saying "It doesn't cost £44".... That's a punitive amount. It's like the letter from the bank doesn't cost anyone £25 to send..,. It costs 60p to send.... The point is you are being monetarily punished for doing the wrong thing.

The B&B frankly can request whatever amount it jolly well likes - the point is not being made about how much it actually costs the business, rather thank no- one should have stolen anything.

It may be heavy handed to say debt collectors but this is a situation where guests have been brazen enough to steal stuff in the first place.... I think if someone is going to steal the toiletries I think that can pretty much assume they probably aren't going to pay either.

SuperFly... Double-boak and a triple-vom... "sticky fingered"....

One bottle costs £2.85. Id write them a cheque for £6 which will be cheaper than postage Id have thought.

sold singularly they're only £2.85

I do to like the idea of refillable bottles. It's the thought of someone scrubbing their arse crack and then using that hand on the pump dispenser for another squirt.

The clue is in the 'sold' bit, Viva, unless you are a scummy-type, you don't steal. If you do then you lose the right to dictate how much you pay for your theft.

I can't believe people can be this rude and graspy... and downright scummy. Really, there are people like this?

I never understand people who nick stuff from hotels, not mini bottles of toiletries, and then act affronted when they get invoiced. I wouldn't be treating your sister again like this anytime soon. Who honestly thinks it's okay to take 250mL bottles of shampoo?

It might be an unreasonable amount, but if you didn't steal the products you wouldn't get charged it... If you bought them yourself from a shop you wouldn't get charged that much either... You wouldn't get snotty letters either if you didn't steal it... It's easy!! Sorry. OP, I know it wasn't you, but your niece, but you did lead us to believe it was tiny bottles, when in fact it wasn't. Imagine being the next guest turning up at their nice hotel with luxury toiletries to be told there weren't any because the previous customer had stolen them all. And it does happen. I work for an airline. On one flight in business class someone stole the bottles of Moulton Brown soap and hand cream from the toilets. When we replaced them they stole the refill bottles too, meaning the passengers for the rest of the flight and the return (USA) journey didn't have any nice toiletries and had to have the economy stuff. It's selfish and it's stealing.

Honeyroar I don't think the OP realised until she checked with her sister who checked with DN. The OP had only seen an invoice which had been sent direct to her not specifying the size of the toiletries.

OP's DSIs is mortified, so no doubt is the DN. When I was 13 I had barely stayed in hotels, we were more of a youth hostel type family, so I wouldn't have known the etiquette. (I probably wouldn't have nicked a big bottle of shampoo, true, but I was capable of doing plenty of other silly things at 13).

Well obviously I'd never have taken a large shower gel in the first place. I can't even be arsed with the small ones that you're allowed.

I was going to say the same as Bathsheba. The £44 doesn't come from anywhere specific, it's a figure picked by the B&B to account for the fact they have to spend time writing a letter, drawing up the invoice, replace the goods (taking into account they won't be able to benefit from economies of scale, etc.), postage for the replacement items, plus a punative allowance for the fact you stole from the premises.

People who own small businesses often take things like this very personally; in the case of this B&B the owners probably work six or seven days a week and it's likely to also be their home. If you work your balls off and someone comes in and lifts something which you've provided for their comfort and which clearly shouldn't be taken you're going to be pissed off. Your reaction may very well be seen to many as a little out of proportion but it must get so disheartening having this happen time and time again, and then being told that you should have signs up to stop it

Youre far too nice. I wouldn't have accepted liability. Did you give them your credit card as security against any items billed to the room? That's very trusting that you wouldn't at least get a bill for £4.50 Pringles £9.99 film and £20 wifi charge. Usually the hotel take a card of the person occupying the room, not of the person paying for the room if paid in advance.

What morebeta said about it being completely fictitious that they could set the debt collectors on you. It's not even worth pursuing £44 through the small claims court.

Also on what planet is shampoo worth £44? They're having a laugh !

No they don't, Zen, they take your card number when you book and when you check in, they ask if you want to charge anything - if so, they take a swipe of your card.

I think you're talking bollocks tbh. An invoice has been raised and it's legitimate - the product was stolen. The b&b could (although wouldn't) call the police, take whatever means necessary to recoup their loss. This was theft. Where do some people stop with taking things that don't belong to them? Is there a viable loss that should trigger recovery? Thieving is thieving, end of.

Don't want to use shampoo worth £44? Don't use it then, definitely don't steal it. What's difficult to understand about that?

By the time you add in time, as in the cost of writing a letter, purchasing replacement shampoo and whatever else was stolen, it could easily amount to £44.

I used to do holiday lets and we generally didn't get thefts, which is why I think its so bad. But we did used to get guests losing keys, and I had a standard cost for replacement in my contract. Yes, it might only cost £5.99 to get a new key cut at the cheapest place in town, but if I do it, I've got to drive down to the only reliable key cutter, pay for parking, leave the key for an afternoon, drive back again and pick it up, then put it back with the other keys and check it works.

My SIL took all the toiletries from our (very expensive) wedding hotel. We had paid for the room.

DH called BIL and he turned the car around sharpish when he heard how much the hotel were going to charge us on check out. It did put a downer on the day after the wedding

Lyingwitch actually there's a real possibility that it's not theft under the legal meaning of the word. Theft requires dishonesty. When determining dishonesty, a jury would be asked to consider the Ghosh test - did the jury think what the defendant did was dishonest according to the ordinary standards of reasonable and honest people. If no, it's not theft. If yes, then they then consider whether the defendant realised that reasonable and honest people would regard what he did as dishonest.

Theft definition requires the 'intention to permanently deprive the owner'. That's it. If somebody can't see that packing away items that don't belong to them is stealing then maybe they should stay at home and not subject their vile behaviour to others.

I think that was why Dr Ghosh's conviction was upheld Amummyatlast. Mens rea of theft isn't some impossible standard, incapable of being proven in certain situations. Its a very practical standard, particularly when combined with the intention to permanently deprive another of their property.

Yes it requires an intention to permanently deprive and dishonesty. Just having an intention to permanently deprive isn't enough.

Chandler I didn't say or mean to imply that it was an impossible standard. I was just getting irritated by the blanket 'it's theft'.

We've made DN pack up school for a life of hard graft in repentance for her vile behaviour. She's being packed back off to Bath to work off her debt in said establishment indefinitely and learn her lesson. As for Dsis, that heathen is never leaving the house again, lest she bring shame on the family again! lighthearted