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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be concerned about this child? (unsure if social services can help)

61 replies

mnthrowaway · 20/05/2015 17:35

This is a bit of a delicate situation, I've always found mumsnet really helpful and I don't know where else to turn!

I've become worried that a child (5yo girl) I know is suffering abuse from their parents - I overheard an episode where she was threatened, sworn at and hit several times. There have also been other worrying signs - e.g. I've seen her taking leftover food from cafe tables, and noticed several bruises on her arms and legs

I want to inform social services so they can investigate her situation, but I'm worried what it will trigger. I think that other people have raised concerns about this child in the past, prompting professional involvement. In each case, the family has moved to a different area of the country, within a couple of weeks. I'm concerned that, if something is wrong, any social services investigation will just make things worse, by pushing them to move again, perhaps abroad

What can I do in this situation? Any advice would be appreciated, especially around the whole moving issue. Can it be prevented while social services investigate? Can cases like this be tracked across counties? Basically, what's the best way I can get help to this child?

OP posts:
Ilovechelseaflowershow · 20/05/2015 21:13

How do you know they have moved round alot?
yes raise it where you can. it may be nothing but it may be something, moving in itself sounds suspicous

Lucy61 · 20/05/2015 22:32

I hope this isn't a reverse!

MsPerfect · 20/05/2015 23:46

To be fair the op has asked what would happen if they moved abroad. And I don't know much, but I assume once you move abroad you are no longer under ss.

I'm guessing the op is thinking that if she reports then the family will just disappear abroad with the poor little girl still suffering, whereas if she doesn't report they might stay where they are and the op can keep an eye.

That's the vibe I'm getting anyway.

NeedsAsockamnesty · 21/05/2015 00:04

Why is it so important to know how children's services track down a family where it's reported a child is being abused?

Why is it important to know how they deal with it if it's outside the UK they flee to?

Why is any of this more important than reporting it and passing that information on to the very people who can deal with it.

If I was a little more cynical I could be forgiven for assuming the op has a child and knows they are about to be reported and is looking for information to help avoid agency contact.

Or that an NRP needs to be told about seek and find orders

But I guess I'm just not that cynical

MiscellaneousAssortment · 21/05/2015 01:12

Reads oddly.

There are many reasons why someone might want a family stopped from moving and investigated.

DrLego · 21/05/2015 01:22

Really odd that you'd know so much about past yet frame this as something very distant, and odd you're fixated on the moving aspect. Malicious referrals are horrible. If genuinely concerned, genuinely, then report.

WanderingTrolley1 · 21/05/2015 07:02

You seem overly invested in this...

ApplePaltrow · 21/05/2015 07:11

Agree with JesusInTheCabbageVan

The logic is stupid. They might move... and the abuse will continue, so I'll say nothing... and let the abuse continue. Are people really this pathetic and cowardly when they see a child being abused?

NeedAScarfForMyGiraffe · 21/05/2015 07:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TestingTestingWonTooFree · 21/05/2015 07:48

Tell SS about everything you've posted here, let them worry about the what ifs.

MicrochipsAndMemories · 21/05/2015 08:00

Stop with the what ifs. What if she dies while you're umming and aring?

Felinealarmclock · 21/05/2015 08:52

OP are you going to answer people's questions or not?

JoffreyBaratheonFirstofHisName · 21/05/2015 10:43

I'd contact the NSPCC or SS but don't hold your breath. Six of us in this house have heard and seen deeply disturbing things that when we reported them, nothing really came of it and we feel like we are probably down as 'malicious neighbours' - even though my kids recorded something. (They knew we had a recording but never asked for it).

We've been in the same position for 18 months since new neighbours moved in - have heard really disturbing things, over and over. We finally called the SS - they came out, then visited weekly, then dropped the whole thing. Leaving the children still being shouted, sworn at and possibly worse.

In December my teenager said he heard the neighbours screaming abuse followed by a thumping sound like someone or something being thrown against a wall or door, then the child screaming. I hesitated as it had happened when I was out, but then the next day I heard precisely that same sequence of sounds - abuse, thump, scream. So I emailed NSPCC as I heard they kick arse. They emailed back to say it was concerning and they might be contacting the police as well as SS. I used to work with kids, kids from very deprived backgrounds but I had never seen kids spoken to like these two toddlers are.

People visited, man next door was his charming public persona, do-gooders swallowed whatever he told them and vanished.

Leaving the kids in the situation. We've heard both kids beign called fucking cunts, idiots - being told they will be 'belted' and the woman shouted at the kids (toddlers) that if they didn't stop, "I'll knock you out!" Apparently the SS are OK with this.

I am getting to the point I feel that I'd like to sue the man and woman next door for child abuse, myself - for the abuse it is to my children to sit in their living room, listen to this, and know nothing will happen. As no-one cares about those two little kids maybe they will take my kids more seriously. It is deeply distressing.

Currently, like whenever officials have been involved, next door have gone quiet and it's been several months. The other day they did have a riproaring argument and I heard the man shout: "Shut up, or the fucking neighbours will start up again!" They seem to have no awareness that we are just reacting to what we have heard.

Hopefully you live in an area where the SS will actually do something. Here in North Yorkshire, they really don't seem to give a crap. I hope you get the child some help but I really, truly wouldn't hold my breath.

ApplePaltrow · 21/05/2015 14:45

^^

Keep calling. They put a file together. Eventually it might save those children's lives.

VelvetRose · 21/05/2015 14:48

Joffrey is there any way to record these violent outbursts? I don't know if you can or if it's ok to do so but just an idea. Agree with Apple though, keep calling.

chaletdays · 21/05/2015 15:38

I am also wondering why the OP is so interested in the actual mechanics of how SS work and track moves across counties.

chaletdays · 21/05/2015 15:40

And I agree, Joffrey you should keep calling.

ghostspirit · 21/05/2015 16:59

im not sure what to make of it...but if there is concern for a child then it needs to be reported...

i might have misunderstood. child has been seen taking left overs from tables in a cafe. child is 5 years old so must have been with parents or other adult. so does this mean the parents/adults ate in the cafe and the 5 year old had nothing. so thats why she was taking left overs from tables..seems a bit on but then i guess it could happen

also if the family keep moving then i guess the child would be moved from school as well.

and im quite sure everything is link so the family can be found.

Lucy61 · 21/05/2015 17:32

This looks suspect to me. Will you respond op- how do you know all this info?

popalot · 21/05/2015 17:41

Don't think about what ss might do or how the family will react. You should report the abuse and allow them to deal with it. It might be the final piece of the puzzle and could well change the child's life for the better. I think as adults it is our duty to report abuse when we suspect it. Phone nspcc for advice.

Original poster
mnthrowaway · 21/05/2015 22:08

Sorry, been at work. Thanks for all the replies.

For those asking, I'm a neighbour who chats to them occasionally. They talk about their past fairly openly, that's how I know about the other moves. I saw the leftover food thing in the park recently

@MsPerfect Yes, this is one thing I'm worried about. If they move abroad, that's it as far as helping her goes. I want to know if there's some way to let SS know about the moving, so they can prevent it.

Like @JoffreyBaratheonFirstofHisName says, I might report, SS come round, do nothing, and leave again, (because the family seem quite nice publicly). Then they may move to who knows where, and no-one can help her

I just want to deal with this in the best way possible for her

@AngelWings74 Thanks, I will message you

OP posts:
JoffreyBaratheonFirstofHisName · 21/05/2015 22:20

Coincidentally, this evening I was in the top garden and heard the man screaming to one of the kids: "You're going to get a fucking belting in a minute! That's the second fucking time you did that today!"

He is very charming, cogent and, the council told me when they confronted him, looks them right in the eye and denies everything. I could kick myself that I was doing a job and had left my phone indoors - recording this dick is the only way to go. But as I say, one of my kids (unknown to me at the time) went out in the garden and recorded one highly abusive spat on his iPad, and when I contacted the NSPCC I told them this time we had a recording. No-one asked to hear it. We are being dismissed out of hand and I am scared that if I got to the authorities again without hard evidence, I could get done for harassment because this bloke looks like a barrack room lawyer. He must have done all the talking (which he seems to publicly, I've noticed) as the woman just opens her mouth and seems drunk/drugged up so for the authorities to go off and leave them in peace twice now, he must have done all the talking.

I feel totally powerless and not believed. When I was a kid and neglected by my stepmother, my GP got the SS involved but the idiots wrote and warned her they were coming, and she also put up a total act which sucked them in. So this is very, very distressing to witness and feel disbelieved all over again.

Basically I have to wait for this man to assault his kids and record it before anyone will care or act. And even then they probably will do nothing again.

Ineedtimeoff · 21/05/2015 22:21

Social services can't prevent someone from moving home. Different authorities systems are not connected so the family would only come to the attention of services if a report was made and investigations followed. It's often a tactic of families that have services involvement to move area.

If on an order they can stop a family from moving abroad. However, the family can only ever be on an order if issues are highlighted to services and an investigation is made. It's about information gathering. So, one call might not be enough for action to be taken, but by the time multiple referrals have been received then an assessment will be made. That's why it's important to report everything and give evidence where possible eg. time and dates of events, what exactly you heard and who said it

JoffreyBaratheonFirstofHisName · 21/05/2015 22:27

mn sorry I should add - don't not report it. Report it and you may live in an area where they are a bit more switched on, than here. Report it and get it off your mind. I feel really distressed by having to sit in my own home and hear this crap constantly, and not be believed - but I have emailed the council, and the NSPCC and as my husband says if this man or the woman murders the kids tomorrow and the press came started that "Why did the neighbours do nothing?" stuff, we could prove we had done everything in our power to get those kids help. So it's off your conscience if you report it.

KneeQuestion · 21/05/2015 22:28

I think that other people have raised concerns about this child in the past, prompting professional involvement. In each case, the family has moved to a different area of the country, within a couple of weeks. I'm concerned that, if something is wrong, any social services investigation will just make things worse, by pushing them to move again, perhaps abroad

...and they told you all of that?