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AIBU?

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Original poster

expected to know about prostitution in a GCSE exam?

237 replies

allinahuddle · 19/05/2015 18:21

Just wondered if I am a prude or if this is inappropriate? Dd2 sat her English literature exam yesterday and the poetry section as expected had two poems to compare and contrast. The introduction to them said they were both about nature and how it affects the man made world. One poem was about prostitution and the other about mining. She said she found it confusing as the introduction made her think her instincts were wrong. She thought it was about drugs and maybe sex but didn't dare write it as she felt sure it wouldn't be that on an exam paper. I can see how perhaps prostitution could be studied as part of a social question in another subject I suppose but to include it as an unseen poetry question for 15 and 16 year olds seems inappropriate to me. To assume that this age group would feel confident to talk about this in an exam situation seems mad. It aldo seems to put the more anxious and less confident or less streetwise kids at a disadvantage as they felt embarrassed writing about it, especially after being told both poems were about nature. Only a couple of kids in the whole school actually wrote about prostitution or drugs even those on target for an A or an A*. AIBU?

OP posts:
Icimoi · 19/05/2015 21:19

It does seem odd that OP's dd assumed that the exam paper couldn't possibly be about prostitution. It's nothing to do with being streetwise, any 16 year old who has read a reasonable amount of literature and indeed who watches TV and reads the papers should be aware of prostitution and not be embarrassed writing about it.

JeanneDeMontbaston · 19/05/2015 21:22

It's quite subtle, though. Until you get to 'transactions/ of flesh and cash', I think it isn't clear, and even that is quite deliberately euphemistic. The juxtaposition with the image of the new mother throws you off the scent, which is the point, isn't it? So if she felt wrong-footed in her interpretation, I'd say that's intrinsic to the poem.

And a good answer might even have found a way to express that feeling of being wrong-footed, maybe?

cardibach · 19/05/2015 21:31

I'm an English teacher and my classes did that paper. Some picked up the references to prostitution, some didn't. It's not really relevant. The question asks them to analyse language, compare usage in the two poems and make a personal response. If they do this, it really doesn't matter what their interpretation is - they just need to explain why they think whatever it is they think.
To those suggesting the OPs DC wasn't properly prepared, well, who knows? There is not enough information here to tell. incidentally, poetry is often ambiguous - that is often the point. A straightforward poem can be really hard to write about. A bit of ambiguity gives something to discuss!

hesterton · 19/05/2015 21:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AliceInSandwichLand · 19/05/2015 21:53

hesterton, I agree - you don't find lilac sprouting all over the place randomly like you do buddlia, do you?! Lovely poem, but surely all those 16 year olds who are gardening experts will have been put off by that ;)

RufusTheReindeer · 19/05/2015 22:36

Just asked ds1 if he picked up on the reference (he said "why? What are they saying on mumsnet?)

He said he picked up in it (when I asked how did he know he looked at me as if I was totally thick "well it's the flesh and money bit isnt it)

But he also said that he didn't say anything about it as he didn't feel it was relevant, so I hope he had some really good discussion points Smile

namechange0dq8 · 19/05/2015 23:04

Wasn't there a similar load of pearl clutching a few years ago about a Carol Ann Duffy poem about knives?

And didn't she write a rather fine riposte?

And didn't even MN get in on the act?

HappyMeerkat · 20/05/2015 00:23

i did my GCSE's about 7-8 years ago it may have changed but we spent months dissecting a book of potential poetry in preparation so when you walked in the exam you knew everything about all the poems that were possibly on the exam. sounds a little like an excuse from my experience sorry.

Suecooke · 20/05/2015 06:45

As a teacher of English, can I just please clarify. Yes, I do encourage children to explore their own ideas and indeed they do. Yes, I do understand that lots of literature is about sex. But, in this exam the question was totally misleading. I had 33 children asking me only yesterday if this poem was about prostitution. 'I thought it was miss but thought, no, not in an exam!' The exam board is totally at fault here. Once again, let's try to confuse children on a very important day. By the way, how many of you would have known what 'fugue' meant at 15? Exams getting easier? No not all!

DoctorDonnaNoble · 20/05/2015 06:54

On our unseen paper (CIE IGCSE) they always give a glossary of unfamiliar words and they err on the side of patronising with what they select. Do they not do this on that paper?
I try to teach my students to expect anything in an unseen. They are often 'difficult' poems. If it has been the case that everyone has found it difficult I'm sure the UMS system will sort it out.
Any students worrying need to be reassured and then in the nicest possible way told to move on, they have other GCSE exams to come.
But to answer OP, a quick glance at most set text lists would indeed suggest that it is prudish to think that sex and issues surrounding it are not discussed in English Literature lessons. I teach all boys at this age and we manage with minimal awkwardness.

Ohanarama · 20/05/2015 07:01

We were told at school that all poems have sex or death references in them!

Catsize · 20/05/2015 07:03

And there as me thinking it would be something more overt like a maths exam with
'Prostitute A works 20 hours a week and earns £536. Prostitute B works 30 hours a week and earns £600. Who earns more per hour?'

nooka · 20/05/2015 07:06

I don't think that poem was predominantly about prostitution, it's really just one line after all and if the question is to analyse and compare then why was that an issue anyway? My 16 year old isn't doing GCSEs, but has read poetry about slavery and madness this term. It's been really interesting reading his essays and seeing how he interprets things (especially as he is dyslexic and I never thought he'd enjoy critical appraisal).

I rather liked the poem too.

Where I live buddlia doesn't survive the winters and lilac is a bloody weed (I have about ten lilacs and suckers absolutely everywhere!)

RitaCrudgington · 20/05/2015 07:10

This takes me back to my O Levels when we did an Unseen practice paper on a descriptive piece from Cold Comfort Farm. I was consumed with terror from then until the exam that we'd be given something similar and I wouldn't realise it was meant to be funny. So I do feel for the OP's daughter.

(Also remember my entire class looking blankly at a teacher who asked them what a reference to a "poor fallen woman" signified in Dickens).

SoupDragon · 20/05/2015 07:14

I read the poem and thought it was about nature and beauty flourishing in ugly places. So, exactly what the introduction said about nature acting the man made world.

babybarrister · 20/05/2015 07:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JeanneDeMontbaston · 20/05/2015 07:35

But does it matter if they didn't write about sex?

That poem isn't 'about' prostitution. That's one fairly small element of it.

wowfudge · 20/05/2015 07:47

Is it not just possible that your DD was embarrassed to tell you what it was about? I cannot ever remember discussing exam content with either of my parents. If she felt it was difficult or she thinks she perhaps hasn't done well couldn't that be why?

thefifthpanda · 20/05/2015 07:50

Crack dens, pimps, girls spreading their legs... I agree completely with the OP. Even if at 16 you thought you'd got the gist of urban grit vs nature you wouldn't necessarily be comfortable expressing this stuff.

JeanneDeMontbaston · 20/05/2015 07:53

You're reading into it, thefifth.

It doesn't mention crack dens. It mentions crack-haunted pavements. It's a pun - the lilac is growing because the tarmac is cracked.

Also doesn't mention girls spreading their legs - again, you're only getting that if you get the link between the girls and love 'open[ing] for anyone', and you wouldn't have to get that to make a good reading of the poem.

RufusTheReindeer · 20/05/2015 07:58

Ds1 had certainly never seen either of the poems before

We will see what happens in August Grin

pieceofpurplesky · 20/05/2015 08:18

Meercat the anthology you talk about us not used by this exam board - the poems are unseen.

Dawndonnaagain · 20/05/2015 08:45

It's 40 years since I did O levels. We covered Donne's 'The Flea" and Marvell's 'To His Coy Mistress'. Sex, sex and sex. Beautifully written, very clever and funny. Still about sex though.
Agree with pp that Wilfred Owen is searingly haunting.

Nosyman94 · 20/05/2015 08:54

I just want to throw in here a response to someone's comment that Tis Pity She's a Whore is about prostitution. Please don't worry and clutch your pearls if your children are reading it - there is no prostitution in it just a wee bit of brother-sister incest

fascicle · 20/05/2015 09:37

To assume that this age group would feel confident to talk about this in an exam situation seems mad.

I can understand this. Some people find poetry tricky, so unseen poetry can be a real challenge, wondering if you've 'got' the poem or not, and having the confidence to say what you think it means. It's a bit different to studying a book and knowing the themes that will be up for discussion.

That said, my daughter, who does not like poetry, missed the prostitution references but would have had no problem mentioning them if she'd spotted them. She thought she was doomed, because some of her friends had picked up on it, and she then thought prostitution was the dominant theme (I told her it wasn't, but she didn't believe me). I think it's a beautiful poem. Loved the phrasing and imagery.