To dislike The Guardian almost as much as the Mail at the moment

[fiveacres]

Perhaps I am BU as I rarely read it these days so feel free to tell me I'm wrong.

The Independent was always the newspaper of choice in our house growing up, but when I started buying newspapers myself I read the Guardian and also many books by some of its prominent writers.

I honestly can't work out if it's that I've changed and grown older and shifting into my mid thirties cynicism after the ideals of my youth, but it just seems so incredibly sullen, complaining and despairing yet without presenting any salient solutions. It also appears very patronising against those it seeks to defend.

As a result, I've started reading The Independent.

Has anyone else stopped reading it of late? I'm genuinely interested as to whether this is my state of mind or not - in other words, has it got worse or have I become more jaded? And AIBU to place it in the same category as The Mail?!

Minifingers

I can't speak for the rest of the county but where i live (London) the 'Champagne Socialist' is alive and kicking. From my experience these folk usually work in such vital industries as freelance B2B consulting, the arts or some other nebulas job in media. For these people, the paper will tell them what to read, what to wear, what to think, what to like, what to hate and what to sympathise with in order to be a morally sound person, yet at no point will it make them feel guilty for installing a brand new, 20,000 Scandinavian kitchen. These folk will rage about tax dodging corporations while quietly ignoring the fact that the Guardian Media Group uses similar tax avoidance structures such as the use of equity owning trusts and a Caymans Islands offshore corporation to avoid stamp duty. They are the sort of social group who will read it and pontificate about its stories involving Syria and Governmental spending cuts at dinner parties, before the cheeseboard and dessert wine is served. They will brag about how they are good friends with the lovely Italian chap who runs the local deli or the cheeky chappie postman, but the thought of actually sharing a drink with either of them feels them with terror.

They like the fact that the paper will give them moral footing, yet wont be intrusive enough to suggest that maybe, if you really do care about the people that you espouse to, sending your children to private schools and building your own million pound dream house in Putney probably isnt the most responsible use of your endless amounts of cash.

The Guardian reflects why the Labour party is in such decline everywhere except London.

North London chattering class 'Oxbridge' educated issues are what it reflects. Downright patronising to anybody outside that self referencing bubble. Typical lefty 'charidee sector' and 'public sector' holier than though but actually sharp elbowed and envious of anyone wealthier than they are but 'soooo concerned about the poor and the environment'.

I was at university with a fair few of the some current Labour political leadership as well as left wing journalist types. That was in the late 1980s and now they are all in positions of power.

Back then we had student debates about 'the miners' and 'Fatcher' and they were all breathtakingly ill informed and mostly living in London ad many from private schools. My DW and me from 'the North' were bemused. My DW lived next to a miner and I was born in a mining area.

Honestly, reading the Guardian now is just like reading a re-run of our student debates of the late 1980s. Gobsmacked they now seem to be against the coal industry.

I'd give them that purely on their work on tax avoidance

Yes the guardian are very good at tax avoidance but

a) I don't think that is a good thing
b) don't you think it is rather hypocritical of them to be avoiding so much tax when they run such damning headlines about other companies doing the same?

£141 per night IS budget in Tokyo.

Bollocks

VoyageOFDad

'I'd give them that purely on their work on tax avoidance, phone hacking and the Snowdon stuff. '

The snowdon and phone hacking scoops were indeed very good, however, as alluded to above their tax avoidence stories are a tad hypocritcal given the GMG's 'creative' attitude its own tax affairs

'The Telegraph lets it's advertisers dictate it's editorial, as do I suspect quite a few other papers. '

Those other papers include the Guardian

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/media/11425580/Guardian-changed-Iraq-article-to-avoid-offending-Apple.html

MoreBeta: "My DW lived next to a miner."

Gosh! Go you!

I used to read it when it was free in a cafe I went to. It closed and sometimes I bought it.

I stopped when the indyref campaign started. Their extreme unionist stance seemed to be completely at odds with the kind of paper I thought it was.

I read toynbee's 'hard work' book before I knew she was a guardian journo. It was good but she really didn't have a clue!

Barbara Ehrenreich does a much better version in the US.

Everyone who thinks it's crap - what paper is better? (assuming the reader is looking for serious coverage of issues around social justice, human rights, the environment, family life, law, religion, books, the arts).

I have never bought a newspaper although I have read a few. They are all right wing to me, but the Mail is far worse than the Guardian.

I don't think you ever get a clear unbiased picture from any newspaper. I think it's far better to take snippets of information from lots of sources - travel, experience, online articles, conversations, books and publications and stop feeding the propaganda monster.

Voyage

I dont think anyone is under any illusion that a degree of hypocrisy exists across the whole newspaper spectrum. I draw my news from a variety of sources and build a composite opinion based on that, I look out for the 'good' journalists irrespective of what the newspaper that employs them prevailing editorial line may be. What specifically annoys me (and many people) though is that the Guardian goes out of its way to position itself as a crusading morally superior 'quality' broadsheet, all well and good, but when that very same paper is found wanting against the very standards its sets other people and organisations it is somewhat easier to mock, especially so given the often hectoring tone that it adopts.

I dont hate the Guardian, I am just very aware of its shortcomings and there are times when it is beyond parody, however, on a more serious note, its recent coverage (or lack of) of the Rotherham child abuse scandals and the shenanigans in Towel Hamlets showed an editorial blindsport that was quite frankly worrying for a supposed investigative paper. Right up until arrests and subsequent inquiries the Guardian played the racist card in countless opinion and comment pieces before quietly climbing down when all the allegations proved to be correct.

pan excellent post.

• I am just very aware of its shortcomings and there are times when it is beyond parody, however, on a more serious note, its recent coverage (or lack of) of the Rotherham child abuse scandals and the shenanigans in Towel Hamlets showed an editorial blindsport

seems to be a reoccurring blind spot of the left actually

Sometimes I have found it unbelievable the amount of facts removed from and article, to give it the best slant.
Yet I could read the same subject /issue in what maybe classed as a 'tory' paper and they have left more of the facts in , making it more informative

I have noticed this ^ too which is why I am very wary of anyone who only seems to read the Guardian I immediately see them as un informed.
They do strip away facts.

You're only wary of Guardian readers? I'm wary of anyone who gets their news from just one source.

"£141 per night IS budget in Tokyo."

I LIVE in Tokyo, and this is not correct.

www.timeout.jp/en/tokyo/feature/7209/Budget-hotels-and-hostels-in-Tokyo

For ref purposes: at the current rate of exchange, 2200 yen is less than 12 pounds! 9300 yen is just under 50 pounds. Etc. etc.

I am just down the road from a place with some super cheap backpacker places.

Prospect magazine is also really good for high-quality slightly-left-of-centre writing. I love Prospect!

Today's long article in the Guardian about the SNP has many of the features that have made me feel much more distant from the Guardian and its views since I moved to Scotland.
I'm not an SNP voter but do think they have been competent in government and prefer the NHS in Scotland to that in England, although think the new exam system for secondary school kids is chaotic and unnecessary.
The article glosses over the failings of nu and current labour and thinks SNP support is all about nationalism rather than the uselessness of the main alternatives. The paper really doesn't understand Scottish politics.

Agree it can be v annoying - but it comes from a certain point of view as most papers do. Reading articles about items I know a lot about (doesn't happen often!) shows up a lot of factual errors.

What I find more irritating is people who regurgitate it with no critical thought and an irrational hatred of the term 'Grauniad'

'I'm not sure PT is patronising so much as remote. She sometimes sounds like an intrepid anthropologist when describing elements of low-paid or WC life.'

Yes I see what you mean about Polly Toynbee. I do like her though and I think she really cares about making society a better place for people who have it tough.

I don't get the Jack Monroe criticism. I haven't warmed to her much in print I have to say (never seen her on TV), but I find her story shocking. So she went to grammar school - so what? I'm sure that was of not much use to her when she was counting her pennies and feeding herself and her son on 10 a week. And I'm really pleased for her that her life has taken a turn for the better and that she is much more financially secure now.