To not see the problem with bankers bonuses? Politics of envy?

[What1]

This is not a thread about a them read but I just read a comment which inspired me to ask ; why do so many people have a problem with bankers bonuses or the high salaries in the City? I mean, these are private institutions (nnot supported by the public ; except for the odd bank), so I just don't see why people think the salaries will affect them.

The way I see it, if they paid less and didn't give bonuses, then the shareholders would get to keep more to themselves and the general public don't benefit anyway (I may be wrong?)

It's just quite annoying reading all these comments which seem to stem from envy. So I have to ask ; why do you (oor people you know) have a problem with big bonuses and high salaries ; AIBU to not care about their salaries and be annoyed by these politics of envy?

I don't get it either. If it's so easy and money for nothing etc, why doesn't everyone do it? There are very few barriers to entry to a career in banking. You don't even need a degree.

Bonuses are good for the economy. As they are a "bonus" rather than a regular income they tend to be spent on luxuries like holidays, meals, cars, fancy furniture and clothes. When the bankers bonuses were suddenly stopped, loads of small businesses went out of business. Notably restaurants and high end mens' clothes shops.

They are of course, all taxed too.

Flabulous I agree with you - we all have choices and no right to complain once they are made. Persoanlly, i think your son does deserve his money

Yes, some banks were bailed out by the tax payer BUT, if I'm not mistaken (which i might be because I didn't read up much on it), the state is getting paid back and with interest. Also, the state is still not the largest shareholder (i think) of those banks.

I think they need the best because as when they fuck up...it has a huge impact on everything else

Rooftop cat if those other professions want the best they need to make the roles attractive, it's not the fault of the money markets that people don't go into other professions, money isn't the be all and end all for a lot of people.

Youths at all the banks weren't bailed out by the govt, I think there was only 3 or 4 bailed out. There must be literally 100s of banks in this country - it was only a tiny percentage of them who were given taxpayers money.

Ah and there we have the reason that so many problems are caused.

When people who are well rewarded, believe that they are genuinely better, more deserving, superior to everyone else, and when asked what about society, and others, and so forth, you know that stuff, the answer is they can "fuck off".

But if you know in your heart that what you are doing is fucking others over, then it's only self preservation to feel that way, I would imagine.

youthecat not youths.

The point is that just because you work very long hours it doesn't necessarily follow that you "deserve" a lot of money. If you work long hours as a burglar you don't deserve it do you?

I am not equating being a banker with a burglar btw, I am just saying long hours does not equal deserve.

I have no problem with a purely private company paying whatever they want to whomever they wish - as long as everyone pays tax fairly.

What I objected to was the fact that when the Government bailed out those banks, those bankers who still received bonuses - because that WAS taxpayers money. Imagine the furore we would get if that happened in the NHS - where Chief Execs of Acute Trusts that employ over 6000 people, are responsible for people's lives as well as livelihoods are crucified in the press for daring to take home a "six-figure salary".

What you might find doing a little research on social inequality, i.e. the difference between the richest and the poorest people, and how it is a contributing factor in many societal problems, rather enlightening.

Riskmanagement Yes!

Whirlpool who said that?

OP agrees with poster who says nurses can "fuck off".

Actually I'm going to give this thread a swerve!

I work in financial services BTW, in an arm which by definition prefers longer term thinking.

I'm glad I don't work in banking, if the posters on this thread defending the bonuses (despite what they led to) are any representation of the attitude in the higher levels of that sector, they sound absolutely unbearably vile. And stupid, or is it just short-sighted. Not sure.

I have an erstwhile good friend who is a merchant banker. She calls people like us "little people". That attitude stinks. I don't think it's uncommon in the banking world. There is that feeling of we are better than everyone else.

zee but the government is only a small shareholder (i think) so they can't exactly dictate how those (3?) banks pay their salaries. Especially when all the other shareholders are okay with the bonuses and salaries.

Squeegle No, long hours doesn't not equal big pay. Long hours, Hard work, Stress, Big decisions - I think these should equal big pay (Yes, I think Doctors should earn more)

Livid I might do that :)

FlabulousChix next time you are using the NHS or if you have private healthcare be thankful they choose their career helping those in need in some way thankfully is what drives them through their hard training often unsociable working hours it certainly won't be for the high salary and added bonus

whirl That's not the part i agreed on and you know it. I agreed that we all have choices and everyone knows the sector they are about to enter so nurses can't really complain.

"If nurses don't want to work long hours fuck off and get a different job."

I really, really want you to go into a Hospital and say this. I think you will find that Nurses (and indeed a lot of NHS staff) are fucking off because they are expected to work long, long hours (up to 14 hours a day) for fuck all money and no respect. However hard your son works he is not responsible for keeping people alive, is he?

Lots of people who work very long hours work extremely inefficiently. There's a culture of presenteeism in the UK in many city and professional jobs - you have to be seen to arrive early and leave late, and to be available at all hours. Very unhealthy for the individual, not good for family life at all and really not conducive to getting good work out of your staff.

Just putting in the hours is no reason for being paid a lot of money. The quality of the work done is what merits higher pay. Of course there will be market forces at play - not everybody could do those city jobs, most people could do a cleaning job if they had to. The real question, though, is what difference would it make to society if the bankers stopped doing their jobs? Not nearly as much as if the cleaners stopped doing their work, surely.

blueshoes - sorry, I should have been clearer. I am not talking about non-doms, though that concerns me too. What I mean is the way you can set up certain businesses so that you don't pay a full rate of tax all the way through, like here for example
www.ft.com/cms/s/0/05bdd1f6-c458-11e2-9ac0-00144feab7de.html#axzz3aON56Mw4

In terms of actual bankers' salaries and bonuses being on PAYE, yes they are. But addressing the broader issues - which I believe get lumped in with "banker issues" - there are lots of ways to get out of paying tax on a massive income, including setting up companies etc etc.

I think they need the best because as when they fuck up...it has a huge impact on everything else

Fair enough. The big merchant banks have been paying huge bonuses for decades. So how long do we have to wait until they get "the best" staff?

Considering how often these banks have made monumentally huge mistakes, made decisions that cost billions and damn-near bankrupted the entire western economy, how much more do we have to pay them before they stop fucking up so badly?

Nurses can't complain when they feel they deserve better working conditions and higher wages

But a few very high earning bankers stamped their feet threatening to take their talent abroad if the government capped their bonuses and the government caved in

And you are defending this

Howard You have only bailed out very few banks (I think 3). This was done because the government recognised their importance.

I don't know, I just fail to see a problem with it to be honest. if it was the public sector then I would agree that the salaries are too high. But, as private sectors - we have no place to dictate what they are paid.

Thank you for all the opinions and link by the way.

I am not up to speed on personal taxation these days but over the years lots of high earners have used any number of schemes to avoid paying tax on their income. There was a point when city bonuses were paid in bullion because there was no NI on that, wasn't there? As fast as the government closes a loophole, another one is dreamed up.

What's needed is a big change in social attitudes so that it becomes totally unacceptable to dodge tax. We managed it with wearing seatbelts, smoking around children, drink driving - attitudes on all these are unrecognisable from the early 70s - why not tax dodging?

I have an issue with the way remuneration committees are all connected. It seems very 'you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. So the 'going rate' grows and grows but bears no relationship to performance.

And since my pension and life assurance is invested in the stock market I am a share holder. Anyone with a private pension is a shareholder so it's my money they are pocketing. For not much return for me.

There are two major problems with the bonus system as it currently exists. 1. Having so much money which isn't part of your salary means it isn't taxed. That means that some of the wealthiest people aren't contributing as much as they could (should?)to providing a safety net for people who aren't privileged. 2. Because bonuses are based on annual performances, they encourage bankers to take higher risks than they might otherwise to generate short term high returns. Neither is good IMO

Freudian Like I said, bankers work in the private sector. nurses in the public. The government is in charge of the public sector (wages etc) and Shareholders are in charge of their banks. The problem is : The government can't afford to pay nurses more but shareholders can and are willing to .