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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think Right to Buy discounts should be made fully portable?

105 replies

Arsenic · 15/05/2015 19:36

I.e. that tenants should be allowed to spend their discounts on the open market, rather than being obliged to buy the home they are in?

It would make sense in expensive areas (tenants can't afford to exercise their RTB due to rocketing values).

It would aid geographic mobility.

It would aid social mobility.

It would free up a lot of social housing.

It would even keep the Tories happy (higher value council housing vacated in London would presumably be sold of us per their announced plans).

Generally speaking, it would do a lot of good.

OP posts:
Kampeki · 16/05/2015 12:05

I think a portable discount is a ridiculous idea! But then, I don't agree with right to buy either.

People who live in social housing already have security of tenure. If they want to buy a property, then it's up to them to get the finances together.

If we're going to spend taxpayer funds on helping anyone to buy, then surely it would make sense to give it to people in the private rented sector, who don't have security of tenure at present. Having said that, I'd far rather invest those public funds in increasing social housing stock - nobody needs to own their own home.

Superexcited · 16/05/2015 12:08

arsenic some would say that RTB and deposit savings schemes are actually very right wing ideas and yet you accuse others of being right wing because they don't agree with these ideas Confused
It is a right wing party that introduced RTB and the same party that has promised the deposit savings scheme.
Why do you think giving large sums of money to people who can afford mortgages whilst cutting essential services is a left wing idea?

Original poster
Arsenic · 16/05/2015 12:11

arsenic some would say that RTB and deposit savings schemes are actually very right wing ideas and yet you accuse others of being right wing because they don't agree with these ideas

Oh I realise that. I've surprised myself.

I just meant that I was getting the impression that some posters were too right wing (in a entirely free-market, non-interventionist, every man for himself way) to approve of them even.

OP posts:
Kampeki · 16/05/2015 12:12

Why do you think giving large sums of money to people who can afford mortgages whilst cutting essential services is a left wing idea?

Exactly - if there is money to spare, let's spend it where it is needed most!

Original poster
Arsenic · 16/05/2015 12:15

People who live in social housing already have security of tenure. If they want to buy a property, then it's up to them to get the finances together

If we're going to spend taxpayer funds on helping anyone to buy, then surely it would make sense to give it to people in the private rented sector, who don't have security of tenure at present.

The primary purpose of the policy wouldn't be to help people into owner occupation but to release social housing. As it is with the local schemes.

There's no benefit to including private tenants in this particular scheme, is there kampeki? No social housing freed up, no tenancy to buy out.

OP posts:
Superexcited · 16/05/2015 12:18

I am not an every man for himself type which is why I would prefer to spend money on essential services rather than giving it to those who are not financially needy.

Original poster
Arsenic · 16/05/2015 12:19

It's interesting that you are focusing on the outgoing tenant rather than the freed up council house.

OP posts:
Kampeki · 16/05/2015 12:24

There's no benefit to including private tenants in this particular scheme, is there kampeki? No social housing freed up, no tenancy to buy out.

I agree, I'd rather invest in more social housing and ditch rtb altogether.

Superexcited · 16/05/2015 12:31

My focus isn't on the outgoing tenant alone, it is on the diversion of cash to the outgoing tenant rather than spending it where it is really needed. I would rather the council used whatever available cash to invest in new housing whilst still keeping the existing housing, hence increasing stock over time. If we spend all the money gifting it to outgoing tenants we will never have any money to invest in new housing stock.

Original poster
Arsenic · 16/05/2015 12:31

I agree, I'd rather invest in more social housing and ditch rtb altogether.

That will never ever happen under this government.

OP posts:
TheSultanofPing · 16/05/2015 12:51

I agree with Kampeki. The people who need help are those stuck in private rental properties. There is a serious shortage of social housing, but bribing people by giving them money to move out of theirs is not the way forward.

Original poster
Arsenic · 16/05/2015 13:00

Because you don't think it would work? Or because you just don't like it?

Bribe is a strange choice of word.

Maybe I'm just taking a very London-centric view.

OP posts:
TheSultanofPing · 16/05/2015 13:19

Ok, bribe is a bit harsh. What about cash incentive?
I don't like it and I don't think it would work.
Maybe if the money made from right to buy had been used to build new social housing, as it was supposed to, we would all be hailing it a success. But it wasn't, and so we're in the mess we are today regarding housing.
It makes me Angry and Sad

Original poster
Arsenic · 16/05/2015 13:24

Maybe if the money made from right to buy had been used to build new social housing, as it was supposed to, we would all be hailing it a success.

Yes, if the rules re re-investment of capital receipts in housing hadn't been changed, I would still be completely anti-RTB.

But they were changed and the takings are now used to build more houses. Which is better, but not perfect.

I still think portable discounts are an improvement on even THAT though. It's just more efficient than RTB (which DOES exist and isn't going away).

OP posts:
TheSultanofPing · 16/05/2015 14:11

No it isn't going away unfortunately.

The thing is though, if you're in London, the 'cash incentive' would need to be pretty substantial to make it worthwhile to the tenant. It would cost an absolute fortune, surely.

Original poster
Arsenic · 16/05/2015 14:18

I've just been having another google.

Southwark's "Home Purchase Grants" for tenants are as follows;

2 Beds - £30,000

3 Beds - £35,000

4 Beds - £40,000

5+ Beds - £45,000

And there is a waiting list, so apparently it is popular.

www.southwark.gov.uk/info/10092/council_home_owner_services/974/home_purchase_grant_scheme

It's not all that substantial, in the great scheme of things, is it?

Wandsworth potentially a bit higher at "up to" £60k (not sure what it depends on). I'd (blindly) guess tenancy length and no. of bedrooms.

OP posts:
Original poster
Arsenic · 16/05/2015 14:21

The point is, it must work, or it wouldn't exist.

It just needs expanding.

OP posts:
TheSultanofPing · 16/05/2015 14:52

Would 35 thousand go very far towards buying a 3 bedroom house in Southwark?
I have to say I thought the incentive would need to be more than that.
You've still not swayed me, although I'm surprised the amounts offered aren't higher.

Original poster
Arsenic · 16/05/2015 14:57

It does rather suggest that they are moving out of borough, doesn't it?

OP posts:
Original poster
Arsenic · 16/05/2015 14:59

Unless a large proportion of them are buying shared ownership. There's a lot available in Elephant and Castle.

OP posts:
TheSultanofPing · 16/05/2015 15:27

I think they're probably moving out of the borough. Maybe that was the plan all along.

Original poster
Arsenic · 16/05/2015 15:38

It's interesting. The southwark info specifies it can be used for SO or similar.

Wandsworth's scheme webpage, by contrast, says their grant can be used to buy a house anywhere in the UK or EU, OR to extend a relatives house to accommodate you. Which is a shock Shock

www.wandsworth.gov.uk/info/200413/home_ownership_options_for_council_tenants/1808/house_purchase_grant

OP posts:
TheSultanofPing · 16/05/2015 16:54

I've just had a look at that webpage. It is quite surprising that the money could be used to pay a relative so they could build an extension.
They seem very keen on tenants taking up the offer.

Original poster
Arsenic · 16/05/2015 17:17

It is and they do, don't they? Hmm

OP posts:
Original poster
Arsenic · 16/05/2015 17:20

Perhaps Wandsworth have a particularly long housing list and/or particularly healthy finances?

I'm going to try and and find all the schemes and all the corresponding housing waiting list figures later. My interest is well and truly piqued now.

OP posts: