Parents should pay for exercise books

[DorothyL]

I know in the US and Germany, and probably other countries, parents are handed a stationery list before the beginning of the academic year - nobody has a problem with it. It would make such a difference to school budgets, and when students leave page after page blank etc (which they do!) they would not be wasting school money.

If we are paying for our own books I want to have the option to buy themself. I can find cheap ones for next to nothing wheras schools always seem to choose expensive providers. Look at school jumpers for example I bought a "spare" one without a logo in Asda for £3, I have to pay £10.50 for the school one.

My other concern is that once they ask us to pay for books where it will stop? Will we have to start paying for new science labs etc?

Tesco - pack of three basics exercise books - £1

www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=285085094

Amazon - posh single exercise book for someone who has the money £7.49

www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B008DVAWF6?psc=1

There has been enough stationery porn on this site to show that there are wide differences between pens. Do you go for the sharpie or will the budget stuff have to do this week? There are also people who genuinely will find that the extra £1 makes a difference.

My observation from academies is that they are happy to set the uniform at a few hundred pound per child, all logo'ed, all from the school shops. Do you honestly think that won't also apply to any exercise books and pens? It won't be the cost of Tesco's basics.

thehumanjam - cross post!

I grew up in Germany

Haven't read the thread, just my 2p worth...

The cost of stationery/exercise books is negligible.

It makes no administrative sense to task 30 sets of parents to each individually go out and buy this shit. It's much more efficient for the school to do it.

Nothing wrong with suggesting parents should contribute to cost of state education, however it must be a debt collected from them after the fact, not something that determines whether or not the child gets something. If the debt is uncollectable for any reason it then gets written off.

So I think it would be OK for a state school to have a legal right to require parents to reimburse them for any and every expenditure, from pencils to to teachers salaries to rent of school premises. But the parents would only pay if they could actually afford to, and no child would go without provision because they didn't.

The debt needs to be large enough to justify the collection admin, so school would have to charge for a lot more than just stationery to justify this kind of system.

I'm 41, so it's a long time ago since I started secondary school. My parents didn't have to pay for exercise books, they were provided, but they did have to purchase certain things on top of the usual PE kits, football boots, bag. I can certainly remember them having to get a scientific calculator, a geometry set, an English dictionary, a French/English dictionary, the usual pens and pencils. And a load of brown paper as we had to cover all the text books!!

There's been an element of having to pay or provide certain things for a long time, the obvious ones being PE kit and food for home economics (often making stuff you'll never eat anyway). I think tax should pay for a certain amount, but I don't have a problem with the state not paying for everything.

I live in Germany, true we buy schoolbooks but we don't have to buy uniforms so to be honest it all balances out. Tbh though with the extortionate rates of uniforms these days how long do you think it would take for schools to insist on a certain book from a certain shop that costs 4 times more than anywhere else? Then you disadvantage pooerer children more.

This thread is so depressing. That anyone in the UK would begrudge their taxes being spent on stationary for children to get an education is beyond my comprehension. Our PTA will not pay for exercise books as they are described as an ESSENTIAL part of education that the school (through taxes) funds.

As for Theoretician's post above... Basically you just want to get rid of state education althougher. What you have suggested is private school for all.

That so many on this thread think that charging got books etc. is reasonable astounds and depresses me.

We have to pay for all of the children's books at the start of the school year, the school send a list home (inc. textbooks) and everything is provided to the school on the first day and goes into their pigeon hole - right down to pencils/pens/erasers. Free school meals don't exist and each family pays a 'voluntary' contribution per child to the school (the school will chase you if you don't pay). All school trips are optional, if you don't pay you don't go and if you represent the school in sports for example, you pay for your own kit and transport.

At the start of the school year you also provide the details of your ambulance insurance to the school in case your child is injured, if you don't have it the school will pass the cost of the ambulance trip onto you!

There is a school kids bonus payable to parents on a lower income over here towards this cost, but last I heard it was possibly going to be cut off by the government.

It's surely much more cost effective for the school to bulk buy this stuff? And avoids all the issues already mentioned.

I think when it comes to cost savings there are bigger fish to fry tbh.

We have to provide a lot of stuff for (state) juniors:
Ds takes in three pencil cases which holds all his stuff.
And it also means that if your dc is the one left on their table with glue still then everyone uses it and it is used up very quickly.
I don't mind providing a pen and a pencil, but I can't believe that it's not actually more hassle for the teacher to go round the class and check who has scissors today, and arrange for them to lend them out etc. and then chase up who has accidently/on purpose perloined said scissors after they've borrowed them.

When I was at school we got 1 pencil, 1 pen, 1 ruler and a rubber per table. Gloopy glue when needed, a box of scissors (enough for everyone in the class, including a left handed set) and a few boxes of crayons-all provided by the school. Perople didn't pinch stuff from each other as everyone's was the same and if you lost it (relatively unusual) you just got another from the cupboard.

And then you have the Monday morning "mum, I have no pencils left"
"I bought you a packet only a month ago-you had 8"
"Well Maddie didn't have one, Matt swapped it for a rubber, and I don't know where the others have gone".

Adding schoolbooks to that would drive me potty.

And I must ask:
Does the Op have shares in Rymans or Smiths?

My cousin used to work in a school in a deprived area (before pupil'premium was introduced). The school was seriously underfunded and didn't have enough stationery to go around so my cousin used to buy pencils, pens, rulers etc from her own money. I think it is better that schools now seem to be buying enough of these things.

OTOH: I remember going to secondary school and being given a list of things we needed to buy. My mum had to buy book coverings, ring hinders, plastic wallets, pens, pencils, rulers, geometry set, scientific calculator, art folder, dictionary, thesaurus..she was on benefits and not overly concerned with education but she bought everything on the list because she was expected to do so. I think she saw it as essential as the school uniform and as a mandatory requirement. have things now changed and do secondary pupils no longer need to buy stationery?

I don't want parents to pay for exercise books, just a pen, pencil, ruler and calculator. Even then there's always spares in class. We have a class set of glue and scissors in each classroom, though some kids prefer to bring their own. Exercise books are essential kit for school, and so should come out of school funds (and therefore general taxation). Tbh I think that scientific calculators should also be provided by the school - one each in yr 7 then they have to pay for replacements. We provide textbooks to each child, most of which don't last more than 7 years due to wear and tear, so why should calculators be any different?

Theoretician, you are basically suggesting an end to state school with free education for those that can't pay for it? How do you define those that can't pay for it? We are not in receipt of FSM or any benefits but there is no way we could afford to pay for schooling. Perhaps we ought to return to the days of children up chimneys?

Our school used to ask for donations of boxes of tissues. I used to buy a few cheap boxes (as kids tend to only blow their nose once on them! ). Each class would then have a tissue supply.

It worked really well, was all voluntary but took one pressure off the school budget. Unfortunately now the school has taken bulge classes they note don't have the storage space for tissues from all the parents.

startrek I know a few parents with kids in UK schools with very prescriptive uniforms who would happily pay for stationery in exchange for having the uniform provided. Uniform costs are a huge burden for parents in some schools, far greater than the cost of a few exercise books.

It is like that in Spain.
Many poor families cant afford these books, so their children dont get any.
In such a system, not even basic primary education is available to the poor, in reality. They dont have text books, no writing books, so cant do homework. It keeps the poor Down, and their children without ability to better themselves.

Where in Spain are you?

We're in Spain. The state education is free and really good in our experience.

We pay €50 a year to the AMPA (parents assoc) and that covers all materials.
If a parent can't afford it they just let the AMPA know and it will be covered. A big deal isn't made of it and I couldn't tell you who, if there are any, hasn't paid the €50. Same with school trips, €30 covers all the trips for the year (and there's quite a few).

The amounts of crafts they do and the brilliant quality of the books is well worth the €50 imo.

The uniform is super cheap and you can buy that from the AMPA. They also keep stocks of uniform that kids have grown out of and given, so if anyone needs anything they can just ask. The AMPA is open every morning in a small office so people can pop in. The AMPA covers lots of things so people go in for all kinds of things.

No - as others have said some children's parents won't provide them or will send the wrong sort etc. But we should look at wastage and raise awareness that these things do actually cost.
MY DD (secondary) is constantly being given new exercise books - often I don't know why - eg they all (apparently) got new maths ones at Christmas with a new text book - now she has just being give more - the ones she has are only half full or less, same colour etc - she has a class and homework book and two maths teachers -so another 4 exercise books And I know she hadn't lost them or forgotten them (she has ADHD and struggles to organise herself so I check her bag every day before she goes to school).
And I also agree with stopping the 'mass buying' mentality -it doesn't seem to reduce costs - I look at school supply companies and everything is £££££.
I've just had to get some safety mats for an independent group, I got them delivered for £210 (most other companies varied from £230-£300) but the exact SAME mats from one of the big school supply companies were £500+.
The group is allowed to use the main council supply place that the schools use - everything I have price compared on is much more expensive. Eg £1.50 for the cheapest A4 ringbinder - you can get one in Tesco for 40p - even things like branded poster paint and good quality pencils - all more expensive.

I'm on the PTA and we had £1000 to give to the school - they said it would be nice to have a couple more laptops - we had to get them from a central supplier...£1000 wasn't enough for 2 (and that didn't include setup/support). We could have got 3 from even PC World, good enough for what they need them for. (I don't see any point in spending a fortune on things like that 'to last' they are out of date in 6 months, obsolete within a couple of years.)

Just to add the uniform isn't compulsory either. Some wear it, some don't, some wear a mix.

I'm irish, and as other have said, we have to pay for all books,copy books, journals,pens etc. Everything. And it goes beyond cost tbh, in ow rubbish it is.
You get sent a big list with all the books you will need for the year. They keep changing the books so half the time you can't get hand me downs either.
We aren't talking about 1 or 2 books here, especially in Senior School. Numerous books for each subject.As well as the cost they are so heavy, and have to be lugged in and out each day.
One of the joys of August was heading to the book shop and joining the throngs already there with their lists...
Copy books have to be bought-lord knows how many for each subject, and bloody well covered.
There were no photo copied booklets,no work sheets from school.
My sons have no school books now we are in the UK. Everything is provided. And no books to be lugged in and out. Makes for more sense for the school to provide, and I'm happy taxes go to this in other schools.

I agree mistigri :) having watched my mum struggle to afford my uniform I am glad I have it easier here with DS...

At primary school all our books were provided but at secondary school we had to buy them ourselves, and we had to buy them from the school office because they had the school logo on them. I've never really thought about it much. Is it normal or not to have to buy your own books at secondary school?

But as for primary school pupils, I support the school providing them. Far too many children would be turning up without otherwise. And then either the child gets left out and disengaged from the start, or the teacher or the PTA end up having to pay for the exercise books.

I really object to the Aussie system. At the start of the year you are given a list of items that have to be purchased from the schools chosen supplier (and is bloody expensive) plus generic items like boxes of tissues and soap. Why can't the schools provide it? If they binned the sodding chaplains program I imagine they could.