to expect a company to have goodwill?

[firstsecondthird]

I need to vent!!
My mother (slightly useless. money burns a hole in her pockets) signed a contract with a company to replace fascias and guttering to her small bungalow- costing £2k- then changed her mind later. She usually asks for my or DH's opinion on such things, but it didn't come to light until one day after the 14 day cooling off period ended.
I called the company explaining that she was 78, recently widowed and had acted in haste and regretted her decision, and would they cancel the contract as a gesture of good will as it was only 1 day late. They refused (quite rudely).
I emailed them later that day to ask them to reconsider. They did not acknowledge the email, so I called them 5 days later to ask whether they had received it. The man on the phone said "I'll go and check and call you back in 10 mins" An hour later I called him and explained that I had called earlier. He said "yes" followed by a long silence. I asked if he had received the email the week before. He said "Yes". I then had to ask him what his response to that email was. He said that his decision of the week before stood.
When I asked him if he was ever going to reply to or acknowledge the email he said "No, it was an irrelevant question." I said that even though the answer may have been the same it is customary to reply to emails to that effect. I asked if he had ever intended on returning my call and got the same answer. He said I was being rude.
He said that if my mother refused to have the work done he would put the case in the hands of solicitors. The workmen would come anyway.
I know that he is legally within his rights, but has anyone ever heard of goodwill or brand protection or being reasonable? I could not believe his attitude, not even to the refusal to cancel the contract but mostly to the attitude towards my email and phone call.
Am I being unreasonable?

RagstheInvincible- that's how I see it. She will have the work done- i suspect it will be fine, if expensive and hopefully she will never do anything like this again
She'll get 2/3 quotes, not rush into it, etc, etc.
Thanks everyone- just needed a frustrated rant- the perils of looking after parents!!

sadly the despoit would only cover her for the cooling off period not for cancalltion after that period and she will still be liable for the full amount (if she refuses the work she will still have to pay but will get nothing in return........)

I think they're bluffing too.

I'd write and ask for a notice of cancellation in writing and say your mum is perfectly happy to pay a cancellation fee.

Has she signed a contract?

If so, where is it?

That will give you all the details you need.

Worridmum, do you have a lot of experience of this?

That price isn't outrageous - I paid 3.5k to have just fascias and soffits done on my house, and that was the cheapest of three quotes c

sadly I do my husband is a self employed contractor and has faced numerous people attempting to cancel after the cooling off period (some had the cheek to cancel half way through the project but wanting a full refund of the money and recive the work already done saying the work will go to waste otherwise (hes a software engineer had to take people to court etc and he has won all of the cases he has taken to court......

I do appreciate that contractors need protection and that the cooling off period is there for good reason. My husband has his own business and his customers are mainly those who are over 65 and gets cancellations too, after he has spent time and effort on them, which all costs money in the end. It just feels that the attitude is poor and that one day past cancellation seemed not too little notice.

I don't think you should really keep mentioning age, what's being over 65 got to do with it?

People of all ages can have dementia, be ditzy, be indecisive, be crap with money...

OP just been talking to DH who is in this line.

If they did take your mum to court, all they could claim for is materials (only if they were specific to that job, which they probably aren't eg plain white facias not lime green!) and theoretically loss of profit. However, as they could have booked other jobs in after you cancelled it's unlikely this would be successful.

The cooling off period is a legal requirement and if you cancel within this period you would be entitled to all monies you had paid eg a deposit back. Given that you cancelled a day after this, I suspect that the onus would be on the company to prove that they had ordered job specific materials and incurred other costs that the deposit wouldn't cover.

In other words, they can keep your deposit but I would be amazed if they were successful in claiming any other monies from you.

However, the 2k cost doesn't sound too unreasonable. It's approx £25 per linear metre for plain white facia (supply and fit) and £15 per linea metre for gutter and downpipe (white/black) so you can work out for yourself if the quote is reasonable.

All that said a reputable company wouldn't act in this way and would allow anyone to cancel up to a few days before the job. If you do get the work done I would watch them like hawks.

If your mum felt intimidated by the salesman, it's likely he was pressure selling, which is an unfair trading practice. Your dm should have the right to 'unwind' the contract/ agreement.

You can report them to Trading Standards via the consumer helpline (number on the Citizens Advice website), who should be able to advise you on the best course of action to cancel the contract.

GraysAnalogy- "keep mentioning age"?? I only mentioned her age at the beginning and age in general once more.

I realise that we can change our minds for good or bad reasons regardless of age, etc, but what I was trying to indicate was that older people are often more vulnerable to issues around changing their minds as they are often not as savvy around major purchases or as confident in arguing their point (My Mum being the case in point here- she felt that she couldn't turn the man away when he was pushing her to sign, even though she could have done so).

My husband always treats his customers with respect and dignity and behaves very differently to the crap bloke I have been dealing with. Quite apart from any moral issue, it isn't good business to behave in this way- recommendations are important to good businesses.

If they did take your mum to court, all they could claim for is materials (only if they were specific to that job, which they probably aren't eg plain white facias not lime green!) and theoretically loss of profit. However, as they could have booked other jobs in after you cancelled it's unlikely this would be successful.

I really wouldn't rely on this. It's the nature of this type of business that in fact people aren't necessarily queuing up for their services, so I doubt OP's mother could make out that it would inevitably have been an easy job to find alternative buyers at short notice.- especially bearing in mind that they too are entitled to a cooling off period.

Just write to them pointing out that your mother is 78 and recently widowed, and was therefore vulnerable to their tactic of high pressurised doorstep selling. As she had not invited their sales spiel, she can be possibly claim they have used undue influence so as to make any contract voidable, and any contractual claims for breach of contract on their part will result in a counter-claim based on undue influence. She then felt embarrassed about the matter and hoped it would go away, hence the delay in telling her daughter about it and you acting. State that any attempt by them to go ahead with an unwanted contract in the circumstances may amount to intimidation as your mother is now so upset and confused she would feel unable to peacefully live in her own home while such work was going on. Forget about goodwill - that's generally built up with a regular client base over a number of years and not relevant here.

That should do the trick. Send it recorded delivery. They're probably bluffing anyway in the hope they can claim some kind of administrative fee for aborting.

Oh, just saw that she has paid a deposit - simply issue a small claim against them, or get Trading Standards to take an interest (if you can). Threatening a small claim in writing might be enough.

2k for fascias is a joke and its a classic high profit, low skills, hard sell con. Yes, I'm sure someone somewhere could come up with 2k based on materials and labour, but most of it will be made up. They'll be buying that stuff from B&Q a day before (if you're lucky, probably worse quality than that). And obviously, in court, they would have to provide actual proper evidence of costs and employment plans if they were going to claim for quantifiable losses, especially after notice of cancellation this early in the game.

Age is highly relevant to undue influence cases, particularly where sales technique such as doorstep selling is involved. The problem is, not that many people want this service or work done at that price, so the company are trying to create work for themselves. And I note it is a company, which will benefit from limited liability should it ever go out of business. Google the guy's name and see what out there.

Except it wasn't high pressure doorstep selling, she invited them to quote after a neighbour recommended them.

OP she is either able to make these decisions or she isn't. She made the decision and changed her mind after the 14 days.

Unfortunate, but she is an adult. If she is capable of calling them to invite them to her house, she is capable of calling them to cancel.

Do you know why she has changed her mind? and why are you trying to sort it for her?

I am not saying that in a arsey way. Just trying to figure out why she only came to you when she decided she didn't want it done anymore.

Ici people are queuing up for "this sort of business", keeps DH's business going! The point about the materials is that if they are non job specific they could easily be used on another job in the future and so couldn't be claimed for.

NRomanoff- she is legally capable in that we have not had to activate the power of attorney, she just gets ideas in her head. She said she wanted the house to be nice for us when she goes and we have to sell it and thought it would add value. Daft, I know, but there you are.
She was embarassed I think that she had made a silly decision and didn't know what to do to make it right. She doesn't have dementia or anything, just lacks confidence badly and has got worse with this since dad died. She usually involves me in everything, (I try to get her to deal with things and make decisions herself but with support) but I have just started by own business which is taking off, and DS1 is 4 and DS2 is 2, so she "didn't want to bother me" so didn't tell me until it was desperate.

Good news is that the company didn't turn up as arranged. When we called them to find out what was going on 1 1/2 hours later, the same lovely man on the phone said "I'll call you back in 30 mins" but when we refused to leave it with him he just said "I've cancelled it".
Let's see if we end up with a court date for recovery of the balance after they have taken the deposit.
By the way, there are a national company with several branches so not one man and his dog.
Thanks everyone.

She said she wanted the house to be nice for us when she goes and we have to sell it and thought it would add value. Daft, I know

No that isn't daft. I really do think you're belittling her an awful lot. She may be 'elderly' but elderly people are perfectly capable of making decisions, just because you might think they're daft doesn't mean she lacks capacity.

And her confidence is bound to be lacking if you deem decisions she makes as daft

My Problem with this is assuming an elderly person can not make a decision for herself. She was confident enough to call, make an appointment and let them in.

I just think you need to be careful when assuming OAPs can't make decisions or their decisions are wrong. We can't ban OAPs from inviting people in to make home improvements, because some of them lack capacity (or even just perceived to lack capacity by their relatives) to make these decisions.

I am glad they cancelled it. I can't see them taking her to court, but will prob keep the deposit.

The point here is if you'd cancelled during the cancellation period you'd get your deposit back (assuming no work has been carried out).

After the cancellation period (14 days since last June) has expired, you can still cancel, and lose any deposit. You CAN cancel any time, but you'd have to meet the trader's losses. It is unlikely that they order materials on anything other than a sale or return/account basis, and the chances are they'll be able to line up another customer. So it's unlikely they'd have any losses which had not been covered by the deposit. So they won't be able to recover the balance, don't worry about that.

A trader cannot charge an unreasonable amount for cancelling a contract - they can only charge their reasonable costs. This is clear guidance from the Office of Fair Trading who don't exist anymore, but their guidance still stands and has been adopted by the Competition and Markets Authority.

Sadly this rule doesn't apply to airlines and the like (so if you cancel a flight and they rebook the seats they can still refuse a refund so get the money twice over) but if it was say a wedding venue and they were able to rebook for a last minute wedding they could NOT charge twice.

I would be tempted to send an email just saying 'this is to confirm the conversation on the telephone at xxxx time where you stated that the works have been cancelled', just so you are content that is an end to it. Glad it has worked out in the end!

I don't think that she lacks capacity, quite the reverse. She has low confidence because she no longer has dad to talk things through with- they were a true team and she misses the joint working on things.
She asked me to undo her decision which SHE thinks was silly. I can imagine that it is difficult to say you don't want to buy something when a man is in your house, you are alone and he is being persistent, whatever your age.
So no, I am not assuming an elderly person cannot make a decision for themselves- there are just a lot of women in DM's situation which means it takes them a while to have confidence to make decisions without checking with someone first. I think she is daft for caring about what she leaves us and wish she would spend it on what makes her happy. As she has said herself in this case, £2k would be better spent on a trip to see my sister in Australia. That's why she thinks the decision is daft herself.

Oh hooray! I'm so glad they didn't bother to come. I thought they were just bluffing. Arseholes!

Your Mum sounds lovely.