to think it cant carry on young families living in cramped flats while protected pensioners rattle around in 5 bed houses

[generationrentsucks]

I just think with the Tories in now, nothing will change with housing, they will keep prices high by carrying on with these help to buy that just allow sub prime loans.

Also I think hardly anyone actually ever downsizes, everyone says they do but not many can actually bring themselves to do it.

However, if I'm ever in that position, I'll be downsizing and divvying things up for my DC.

Thats my plan, I would do that. Don't know how it will help large families squashed in HA homes though. And I assume they wouldn't be able afford to buy the home I was selling, because then they would be living in a slightly small flat.

My parents "downsized" at 65 to something with 5 bedrooms

But if they've worked for it and paid for it, what's it got to do with anyone else?

The thing that always gets me about this line of thinking is the assumption that anyone over 60 is "old" and just bumbling around in their big house waiting to die. Most 60+ year olds I know are fully engaged in life and that life includes using their house in a way that suits them - be it for family, friends, hobbies or freelance work.

The constant reference to bedrooms is misleading. I've got a big house and when I'm older I'm going to stay here, even though my DC have left, because of the things I DO in my life: I work for myself and this will carry on as long as I've got all my marbles. For this I need an office and a studio. I also use one room of my house as a library. I've worked hard to pay for a house that accommodates my personal and professional needs - and those needs are not to do with bedrooms for DC. I think that is true of many older people. Maybe they like a room for painting or sewing in, for example. A bedroom doesn't have to have a bed in it. No one is in a position to judge except the person whose home it is.

My DM lives alone in a 5 bedroomed property that she owns. Why on earth should she move given that she doesn't want to?

It's my responsibility to make my own way in life, not be permanently supported by my parent!

of course the govt cant make people move but it would be possible to restructure property taxes or put some sort of land tax in place so that there is an incentive to not under occupying property.

Surely one major function of taxation is to stop the wealthy from using their wealth and power to accumulate wealth at an ever increasing rate to the detriment of society as a whole

When what was the bedroom of a DC who has left the nest becomes a study or a library or a hobby-room or a guest-room that is not under-occupation. It is a different sort of use. I appreciate that many people will not be able to buy a home but that is no reason to turn on those who did and want to keep it.

Also remember. If they downsize and spend the difference on holidays and high living it won't be available to pay the fees if they end in residential care. If it stays tied up in their homes it will!

I think that part of the problem is the type of new houses being built. The OP specifically mentions 5 bed houses. New build 5 bed houses are often on 3 storeys. So they have the footprint of a 3 bed house with the reception room space of a 3 bed and no loft storage.

Not only is a great deal of the larger private housing stock under-occupied by older people, but the quality of "equivalent" new stock coming onto the market is much worse.

I'd guess this can't go on indefinitely any more than the owners can live forever. And with families cramped in 2 bed flats, it is hard to care much about the 5 bed houses at the top of the ladder when more 3 bed houses would have a much more significant impact on families in cramped flats.

Except that those wealthy pensioners have paid a fuck load of tax into the system during their working lives...

But hey yeah, fuck em, they're nearly dead after all so they can just step aside and let the fun times roll for everyone else....

I've already downsized once - to give my children a boost on to the housing ladder so they could still live in Greater London working in public sector jobs.

I still have more bedrooms than I need, but I wouldn't want to give up the living space that comes with them because I want still to be able to entertain the whole family for Xmas and Sunday lunches.

It's quite a fundamental shift in family dynamics when the family can only meet up in one of the next generation's houses. I think I'd put on years overnight. And I'm still the one with the biggest table.

I've tried to help out with my own family but there's nothing more I can do except vote for the party that didn't want to extend right to buy. And a fat lot of use that was.

OP - I heard some discussion the other day in which someone was saying that the Govt had plans to review social tenancies and terminate them if circumstances have changed. But there will almost certainly be a lot of undesirable social consequences to that idea, not least the shortage of one bed flats.

In any case, my brothers 2 up 2 down into which they've crammed a family of four (and it really is absolutely minuscule) is worth more than my parents' 5 bed, double garage, massive garden etc etc.

Location location, location!

A few months ago a couple in I would guess to be their 70s bought a large 4 bedroom family home across the road from us. There is just the two of them, and I have yet to see anyone visit them, so yes - I get what you're saying OP, because it baffles me as to why they've bought such a large home. If they've downsized I'd love to know what from.

But what I think really is the issue with the housing crisis is the cost of renting and the lack of tenants rights. The real shame is that lots of decent family homes are bought up by private landlords and let out for extortionate prices. That's what needs tackling IMO, rather than trying to persuade older generations to downsize.

From a HA tenants point of view...We waited 8 years for a house to become available. We have lived here for nearly 20 years, paying full rent for most of that time, we've brought our children up here, and it is very much our family home. I feel sorry for the families that can't get housing, and I disagree strongly with the proposed right-to-buy scheme for HA properties, but this is more than a house to us, it is our home, and I don't want to leave it just because I get old(er). I want to be able to provide a roof for my dc if ever they should need it, if they can ever afford to move out anyway.

Well, give it 20 years. There'll be a surplus of large family homes on the market, as the older generation will have died/ gone into care homes. An increase in supply should push prices down.

Well, give it 20 years. There'll be a surplus of large family homes on the market, as the older generation will have died/ gone into care homes. An increase in supply should push prices down.

Yes which is why all the people banking on the sale of their parent's homes to provide security for themselves or their own children could end up coming unstuck

Ah, yes, Boomer Die-off freeing up large family homes. I was discussing this with my DM only last week (don't worry, she has a tiny house so she's not taking it personally).

Not sure it won't be cancelled out by population increase, but I suppose that's not a given either.

1. I would ensure bedroom tax does apply to OAPs (for housing benefit - it currently does not).

2.I would abolish stamp duty entirely for everyone but particularly older people downsizing. Instead it has gone up for higher value properties - up to over 12% at upper rates now for older people in London. None of us want to give the state the price of a small house in stamp duty just because we move. The state is ensuring the old stay in their homes because of stamp duty. The new IHT rules are ludicrous too which the Tories plan - that a couple get £1m IHT tax free band on death but only for part of that on a house. If instead they have cash savings they won't get as high an IHT exemption - yet another state method to force older people to stay in their homes. We have this totally the wrong way round.

1. Of course if you have space but own your place though it's up to you. Anyway many of us (I am under 60) have children at home coming out of our ears. My older 3 all came back here after graduation, two of them to go to law school for 2 years. I joke that I will have to wait until I am 85 even to get one night alone in this house ever. I have never yet had the chance to live alone - my elderly neighbours are very lucky to have that.

1. My father spent £130k a year (yes that!) on day and night dementia care and died in my parents' house just as the last of his life savings were spent. I think when you get to that point being in your own home with familiar surrounding as your mind goes is a massive comfort and if you own it then it's your right to be there. Most of these people worked very hard. My parents survived WWII. They put off children for 13 years until they could afford them - how many mumsnetters do that these days? They worked hard all their lives, my father until he was 77 full time. He died 2 years later.

landlords will be able to buy up the huge piles cheaply and convert them into flats

thus transfering more and more housing stock into the hands of fewer private individuals

My parents have worked their arses off to buy and out rightly own their big house. I've worked my ass off to buy my house with my DH. I'll be damned if anyone is going to tell me that we can't live in the houses that we've worked hard bettering ourselves to buy just because we have a spare bedroom or two (or four).

Here's an idea for you, why don't you not work your ass off, spend more time with your children enjoying life, and live in a smaller house that better suits your needs.

Oh, and how are you 'bettering yourselves' by living in a big house?

'Oh, and how are you 'bettering yourselves' by living in a big house?'

the bigger the house the bigger the potential windfall as the property bubble inflates
that's how

I think there are far too many big homes being built that are unaffordable... there needs to be more medium, mixed developments. (bungalows, flats, two bed, three bed) planned properly so that there is proper parking and space for a small garden and less "dead space" around them as sometimes occurs in new developments.

*of course the govt cant make people move but it would be possible to restructure property taxes or put some sort of land tax in place so that there is an incentive to not under occupying property.

Surely one major function of taxation is to stop the wealthy from using their wealth and power to accumulate wealth at an ever increasing rate to the detriment of society as a whole*

Not really, no. Why should people who have worked hard and saved and paid their taxes not be free to live in their homes, which they have paid for, without having to pay more tax.

I don't get the attacking of the wealthy on this site sometimes. People who are rich are not automatically bad people. Many people seem to think it's OK to suggest taking more and more money from wealthy people (50% tax for example) as if those who have money should automatically have it taken from them just for having it. I'm all for paying tax, but fairly. Not arbitrary 'tax the rich!' as a default.

Unfortunately where I live the elderly cannot downsize to a bungalow even if they wanted to. They are either extended to the max or a bidding war begins by people wanting to extend them. I love having elderly people in the street as they are important members of the community and my DC learn from them and now as teenagers help them.

People who are rich are not automatically bad people

indeed but, as I said the wealthy (just like the rest of us) tend to act in thier own best interests.
That means that they use their wealth and power to accumulate wealth at an ever increasing rate to the detriment of society as a whole