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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to wonder why we can't have electronic voting?

91 replies

ElizabethG81 · 07/05/2015 16:11

I mean, how hard would it be in 2015 to have an electronic system at the polling booths? There'd be no need for counting, re-counting, rushes to declare "first" or all night election coverage. Just close the voting at 10pm, let the computers add up the votes and you're done. Well, you're ready for the bargaining to begin...

OP posts:

namechange0dq8 · 08/05/2015 18:33

At least a system with finger print puts a stop to most of that.

Yeah, because there's absolutely no problem with the introduction of a compulsory national system of fingerprinting without which you can't vote, and no chance at all of it causing a massive political stink with civil disobedience and shit. Those "ID Cards, Labour's Poll Tax" tee-shirts would be extra-pertinent, as this would be a real poll tax.

DollyTwat · 08/05/2015 18:39

They could certainly introduce an icr system to just count the votes

Then you'd just scan the paper in, the system would just recognise where the cross is. Would speed up the counting process significantly and you'd have the physical paper if you needed it

DollyTwat · 08/05/2015 18:40

I'm off to design a system to make my fortune

Hulababy · 08/05/2015 18:44

I've done postal voting for years now; cant remember last time I voted at a polling station.

I don't think it mystifies the voting procedure at all. 13y DD is still informed in what elections are all about and how we vote - possibly even more so in that we have been able to show here the papers, how they are completed, etc.

There has to be the technology available to do safe, secure electronic voting by now.

It could also be a way to try and increase the number of people voting, especially younger people. So much can now be done securely online - why can't voting really be done.

securitylecturer · 08/05/2015 18:55

There has to be the technology available to do safe, secure electronic voting by now.

www.tvsproject.org

But the problems are hard which is why deployment is a long way off. And Pret a Voter (the basis for the TVS project) doesn't attack electronic voting from home, which is a massively harder problem than electronic voting in polling stations.

NotCitrus · 08/05/2015 20:10

I'd prefer to see Parliament move to e-voting so they don't all have to file through the lobbies and get their names written down like primary kids in a fire drill. Takes forever if the Lords get to a contentious debate as each Division takes about 15 minutes as they all shuffle through.

Though junior MPs like the lobby system as it's about the only time some of them get to chat to their Ministers.

For elections, stick to being able to apply for postal or online votes with a reason, but make the majority of people go mark a box with a stubby pencil.

US voting varies by state and even district - I've had absentee ballots received a week before the election with no names on (you have to write all the candidate and party names in yourself) and so badly photocopied you couldn't vote on one issue as the box was off the side of the paper...

namechange0dq8 · 08/05/2015 20:15

I'd prefer to see Parliament move to e-voting

They could do that tomorrow: not only is it not a secret ballot, but who voted which way is actually published. So it's trivially easy to audit.

HomeHelpMeGawd · 08/05/2015 20:40

Securitylecturer, I'm not technical enough to understand the Victoria voting paper fully, but I wonder if you can explain in lay terms how it ensures I know that my particular vote has been counted as intended? And more generally, that the votes cast per party have been properly allocated to each party? I just don't see how it's possible to provide sufficient transparency, when the core of the system is a machine count of votes where no-one knows the true answer and so we have to trust the machine (or the protocol). With a bank fraud, I will normally find out I've been defrauded. With an evote, how can I ever know that my vote was definitely counted in the right column?

StupidBloodyKindle · 08/05/2015 21:20

Wasn't this year the first year ex pats could vote online?

securitylecturer · 08/05/2015 22:26

I just don't see how it's possible to provide sufficient transparency

And that's the problem that we talk about in seminars: how transparent is this stuff really? Given a few weeks, someone with a PhD in an appropriate branch of theoretical computer science topics could work through the proofs and assure themself they're right: it's using fairly well established stuff from the security community, and the building blocks (mixnets and some relatively standard crypto) are well understood. For the moment, people I trust who are working on it say it's OK, and I'm prepared to trust them, but if I needed to verify it, I could, and so could hundreds of other people.

The idea is that although the man in the street can't verify the correct operation, enough people could to ensure general trust. Which is fine as far as it goes, but the chain of assurance is very complex. The advocates of such schemes argue that if a sufficiently large number of senior academics in computer science say it's OK, people will trust it. You watch a video like this:

and you're happy. I'm not convinced that's true: the sort of people who get nervous about such things tend not to be respecters of status and power.

Omnishamble · 09/05/2015 00:02

In the UK if we feel a responsibility to vote but don't like any of the candidates, there's always been the option to spoil a ballot paper; that wouldn't be an option if things went electronic.

couchparsnip · 09/05/2015 00:47

I have worked as a poll clerk and presiding officer for years and have noticed there are some people who have trouble understanding the current system let alone an electronic system. I think it would be a waste of money to change something that works well. Perhaps I am being old fashioned but I like seeing people come in and make an occasion of voting. A lot of older people say they've 'done their duty'.

TidyDancer · 09/05/2015 00:53

My cousin works for the district council in her area. She worked at a polling station on Election Day for 17 hours and then went on to the count for another five hours. Although she was paid for her time (not a great deal for the time she put in), a 22 hour working day is a bitch by anyone's estimation so I imagine e-voting would be popular amongst those physically counting ballot papers.

couchparsnip · 09/05/2015 10:53

Not me Tidy! I enjoy the day and its only once in a while.

HemanOrSheRa · 09/05/2015 11:11

I completely agree with you couchparsnip! I've worked in Polling Stations for years and I enjoy the tradition. It's great to see whole families coming in to vote. I love explaining to the young first timers what they need to do. Which is why I generally end up at the end of the table folding and handing out the ballot papers . I think people take comfort in the tradition and ceremony of the voting process.

TidyDancer · 09/05/2015 18:48

Oh yes, she enjoyed the day, but not the count I don't think.

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