To hate the expression The Heir and the Spare

[chocolatelife]

It is absolutely so derogatory.
Why do they still use it?

Its not a nice term...but its true. Royal couples, especially those in line for the throne, are expected to have a least 2 children for that reason. So not nice but sums it up.

YANBU to dislike it but everyone has their pet hates and we can't please everyone all the time.

The fact that it's derogatory is the whole point, surely? And yes, it's true. Until the law about the line of succession changed, there would have been an expectation that the Cambridges and their like produced two boys.

oh yes of course.
princess anne's offspring i believe cant have royal titles.
it will be different now for the new princess

It's not very nice but it's true. Back when the royals actually ran the country, if there was no 'spare' the country could face civil war if the heir died. Henry VIII was the 'spare'.

princess anne's offspring i believe cant have royal titles.

No, Princess Anne decided not to bestow titles on her children when they were born. Zara could have had the title Princess but her mother decided against it.

An ex boss of mine was the 3rd son - they were called Heir, Spare and Don't Care. I hope it was in jest

not what it says here nights

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23272491

Princess Anne can't have titles for her children. Its often assumed she chose not to. The royal titles did not go down the female line unless its the Queen.

Until recently great grandchildren of the monarchy could not have titles either. Grandchildren could but not great grandchildren. That was changed just before Prince George, particularly because he is in line for the throne and it was felt he should have a title. That was rule/law put in place by the Queens grandfather.

I believe, but not 100% that titles can now be passed through the female line and if George was to abdicate, the new baby would be next in line for the throne, after him. I am sure they changed the rules before George was born that if he was a girl, he would still be in line for the throne.

Although I am willing to bet they knew it was a boy.

It's concise + memorable shorthand,mthat's all

Edward and Sophie chose not to give their children royal titles. Anne didn't have a choice.

I've just been reading about Anne's children and titles, your all sort of right. The title does go down the fathers side, so the fact that anne married an untitled man, would mean that her children wouldn't have a title. But Mark Philips was offered an earldom as is customary but he chose to refuse it. That's why neither Zara or Peter have royal titles!

shewept is right about Princess Anne's titles. They are not heritable. If her husband had accepted a title (as Princess Margaret's did) then that's what would have been handed on.

The Prince/Princess used for children of the monarch is properly a style, not a title. And it's only titles that can be passed on. That's (probably) why Princes Andrew and Edward both accepted titles (York and Wessex) as wedding presents, as that meant their children would be titled.

When Captain Mark Phillips refused a title (and we simply don't know if it was his or her choice) then there was no option for his children to be titled. The act of his refusal might count as "Princess Anne chose that her children not have titles", because it had the same effect, but it's not really as direct as that phrase or similar implies.

"I believe, but not 100% that titles can now be passed through the female line and if George was to abdicate, the new baby would be next in line for the throne, after him. I am sure they changed the rules before George was born that if he was a girl, he would still be in line for the throne"

Titles are unaffected, it's only the succession that changes, and only from the time of the change (they're not rewriting the whole damn thing, just inserting new joiners under the new rules).

And the law wasn't passed until 2013, and came into effect in 2014.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/the_royal_family/1326544-Girls-and-succession-to-the-throne

interesting.

Interesting fact - Peter Phillips was the first grandchild of a monarch not to have a title for 500 years. I would think that the decision not to accept a peerage was down to Princess Anne not Mark Phillips going by the consensus at the time that he was a complete drip.